Who Is Likely To Receive More Graces.....

["Kyrie eleison"]

A person who goes to mass every Sunday and rarely misses because it is a mortal sin to miss mass without a good excuse, they are generally a good person, but are more lukewarm in their walk with Jesus.


or

A person who fully believes in the Church and it's teachings, tries their best to show the love of Jesus to each and everyone that they encounter,feels the fire of love of Jesus everyday in their lives [b]but[/b] only goes to mass 3 or 4 times out of the year.

[XIX]

Don't know. Don't care to speculate. Lukewarmth is a bad thing, missing Mass is a bad thing. I pray to God for the grace to go to Mass regularly and to be on fire for Christ. I also pray that others have the same. We don't need to speculate about these types of questions to know what God is asking of us.

["Kyrie eleison"]

[quote name='XIX' post='1474940' date='Mar 10 2008, 12:24 PM']Don't know. Don't care to speculate. Lukewarmth is a bad thing, missing Mass is a bad thing. I pray to God for the grace to go to Mass regularly and to be on fire for Christ. I also pray that others have the same. We don't need to speculate about these types of questions to know what God is asking of us. [/quote]

Yes, we know what the Church teaches and what God asks of us. Yet, we all know and see these types of people in our own lives. I was just curious to hear opinions.

Edited March 10, 2008 by "Kyrie eleison"

[LouisvilleFan]

[quote name='"Kyrie eleison' post='1474924' date='Mar 10 2008, 12:18 PM']A person who goes to mass every Sunday and rarely misses because it is a mortal sin to miss mass without a good excuse, they are generally a good person, but are more lukewarm in their walk with Jesus.
or

A person who fully believes in the Church and it's teachings, tries their best to show the love of Jesus to each and everyone that they encounter,feels the fire of love of Jesus everyday in their lives [b]but[/b] only goes to mass 3 or 4 times out of the year.[/quote]

Any particular reason why the second person doesn't go? If they're simply choosing not to attend Mass, that betrays them believing in Church teaching.

Other than that, how can of us have a clue? For all we know, the first person may appear lukewarm, but actually have a very strong faith. We simply don't know what's going on inside a person's heart and for me to speculate on that would make me a bad Catholic and a gossip.

[prose]

Well, I would say if the second person fully believes the Church and its teachings, then they must have pretty grave reason for missing Mass. In that case, they may receive graces due to intent?? Not sure on that.

The first person would receive the special graces that only come from attending Mass. And slowly, because they are attending, whether they recognize it or not, God is changing them with each Mass they attend

["Kyrie eleison"]

[quote name='prose' post='1474990' date='Mar 10 2008, 02:24 PM']Well, I would say if the second person fully believes the Church and its teachings, then they must have pretty grave reason for missing Mass. In that case, they may receive graces due to intent?? Not sure on that.

The first person would receive the special graces that only come from attending Mass. And slowly, because they are attending, whether they recognize it or not, God is changing them with each Mass they attend [/quote]

Thank you Prose for your answer. There are people that I personally know that only on occasion attend mass but in their life they have always been kind and loving, always attempting to help those around them in any way.

On the other hand there are those who go to church regularly and you know how stingy they can be and would rather turn a cheek and are only concerned about themselves, like the Pharisees.

["Kyrie eleison"]

[quote]Well, I would say if the second person fully believes the Church and its teachings, then they must have pretty grave reason for missing Mass. In that case, they may receive graces due to intent?? Not sure on that.[/quote]

What does the Church teach on intent?

[Deb]

Grace is received every time you receive a sacrament so the person who goes every week will receive God's grace.
A person who only goes now and then but, is a very good person, is also lukewarm or they would be going to church. Not going to church is a sin ya know.

[prose]

[quote name='"Kyrie eleison' post='1475021' date='Mar 10 2008, 02:09 PM']What does the Church teach on intent?[/quote]

No idea in this case.

[picchick]

We do not really know what is in the heart. Only God does.

[CatherineM]

People can be nice and live good lives and not be on fire for Jesus. I find it hard to imagine a person actually on fire with Jesus who would miss mass without a good reason.

[picchick]

[quote name='CatherineM' post='1475113' date='Mar 10 2008, 05:59 PM']People can be nice and live good lives and not be on fire for Jesus. I find it hard to imagine a person actually on fire with Jesus who would miss mass without a good reason.[/quote]

Unless they weren't Catholic. That is pretty much the only thing I could come up with.

["Kyrie eleison"]

[quote]I find it hard to imagine a person actually on fire with Jesus who would miss mass without a good reason.[/quote]

I remember when I was a kid and even in my teens I went to mass because I was forced to. I never really listened and just went through the motions. I see people who are at mass now who are half asleep and some even sleeping and are awaken by their own snore. I wonder what type of graces these folks receive.

I know that there is no way to know people's hearts and how God uses his graces to move people, but I know people who are more Christ-like who don't go to Church often and who are Catholic than those who go to morning and evening mass daily and are known to be very UN Christ-like.

[picchick]

[quote name='"Kyrie eleison' post='1475175' date='Mar 10 2008, 07:42 PM']I remember when I was a kid and even in my teens I went to mass because I was forced to. I never really listened and just went through the motions. I see people who are at mass now who are half asleep and some even sleeping and are awaken by their own snore. I wonder what type of graces these folks receive.[/quote]

I just want to defend some of the sleepers out there in the congregation. I know that you would never fall asleep at a party because it would be considered rude. However, sometimes I am so beat because I work two 12 hour shifts and am only able to get to the 8 pm Mass that I do fall asleep. There are times when I will work an 8 and a 12 hr shift and still find myself nodding off. I try not to but it happens. Now I would never go to a party after doing this because I know I won't survive. However, I need to and want to go to Mass. There is no choice for me in the matter. So, I do the best I can.

Again, only God can know what is going on in a person's soul.

Meg

[mortify]

[quote name='"Kyrie eleison' post='1474924' date='Mar 10 2008, 10:18 AM']A person who goes to mass every Sunday and rarely misses because it is a mortal sin to miss mass without a good excuse, they are generally a good person, but are more lukewarm in their walk with Jesus.
or

A person who fully believes in the Church and it's teachings, tries their best to show the love of Jesus to each and everyone that they encounter,feels the fire of love of Jesus everyday in their lives [b]but[/b] only goes to mass 3 or 4 times out of the year.[/quote]

The first person is better off because the second person is in a state of mortal sin, which cuts you off from Sanctifying Grace.

Edited March 11, 2008 by mortify

[mortify]

[quote name='picchick' post='1475097' date='Mar 10 2008, 04:40 PM']We do not really know what is in the heart. Only God does.[/quote]

We don't know hearts but we know certain actions are mortal sins if done knowingly and willingly. If a person dies in a state of mortal sin without repenting they go to hell.

It's a hard teaching but its true, Kyrie Elieson.

[Socrates]

The Church teaches that it is a mortal sin to miss Sunday mass without a grave reason for doing so.
If these people are Catholics, and really have such a love for Jesus, they would not commit mortal sin every week by deliberately missing mass.

As Christ said, "If you love me, keep my commandments." (John 14:15)
Attending Sunday Mass is a commandment of Christ though His Church.

On the other hand, if one attends mass regulary and commits other acts of outward piety, but lacks true charity in his heart, he too can risk his salvation through his hard-hearted hypocrisy.
We should remember, though, that it is not our place to judge individual souls.

[picchick]

[quote name='mortify' post='1475353' date='Mar 10 2008, 10:11 PM']We don't know hearts but we know certain actions are mortal sins if done knowingly and willingly. If a person dies in a state of mortal sin without repenting they go to hell.

It's a hard teaching but its true, Kyrie Elieson.[/quote]

I understand what you are saying but I still will have to disagree with you. We first off do not know why the person is missing Mass. We don't know if they even were taught that missing Mass was a sin. Maybe this was not reinforced for them.

I agree that if you die in the state of mortal sin then you will go to hell. But how can one person say to another, "You are in a state of mortal sin."? Isn't it better to say, "Hey, man, do you know that it is a mortal sin to miss Mass? You need to go every Sunday." Then if her were to reply, "Why, yes, I know that I should go every Sunday but I do not feel it is necessary," we could say that she is committing a mortal sin knowingly. Plus, how do we know if a person dies without repenting? We don't. We do not know what is going on in the heart, mind and soul of the dying person unless they vocally say something.

[Socrates]

[quote name='picchick' post='1475423' date='Mar 10 2008, 09:56 PM']I understand what you are saying but I still will have to disagree with you. We first off do not know why the person is missing Mass. We don't know if they even were taught that missing Mass was a sin. Maybe this was not reinforced for them.

I agree that if you die in the state of mortal sin then you will go to hell. But how can one person say to another, "You are in a state of mortal sin."? Isn't it better to say, "Hey, man, do you know that it is a mortal sin to miss Mass? You need to go every Sunday." Then if her were to reply, "Why, yes, I know that I should go every Sunday but I do not feel it is necessary," we could say that she is committing a mortal sin knowingly. Plus, how do we know if a person dies without repenting? We don't. We do not know what is going on in the heart, mind and soul of the dying person unless they vocally say something.[/quote]
It would be far more productive to explain charitably to those non-mass-goers the need to attend Sunday mass, than to speculate about who has more graces.

[CatherineM]

They say that ignorance of the law is no excuse, so those that do know the law are held even more accountable.