Need Your Help And Prayers Again!

[Nunsense]

[quote name='praying4carmel' post='1515159' date='Apr 30 2008, 11:56 AM']Annie, YOU ARE NOT WEIRD! I full understand what you are saying...

You are correct..it is Not The same..to have community prayer and be alone with your Beloved...I do not see prayer in the same way that others do, either, However, in this discernment process..I am learning rapidly how to have harmony in my own personal prayer life. I understand that I will not always be able to be "alone with the Alone" all the time. However, He fills me and works thru me in a new way. I feel stretched..

For me, and this is just my experience, not a judgement on yours in any way, I found that I was becoming somewhat attached to spending time with Him Alone to the point that it was exclusive to any prayer time that I had. As St. Teresa talks about we can become too attached to raptures and feelings etc. experiences..Though I love spending time with the Lord, I wanted Him to fill me so that I could be there in service to Others. This meant re-learning intercessory prayer, centering prayer, etc. I knew when I moved into the desert so to Speak I was getting somewhere..I trust in my Dark Nights because I know He is with me, even when He does not feel anywhere present.

I do not look for outcomes any more in prayer, rather i trust in Him to have listened to my prayer, and to answer in His way. I am still attacked by evil forces sometimes..in other words completely inappropriate thoughts come at inappropriate times, but now I say: "Lord, Holy spirit, & Michael help" and I don't attach to the thought or fight it I just don't go with it.. and it's then gone..so I know someone is listening to me!

I know that we all believe in your Vocation 100% here on Phatmass. However, I would ask you to take a leap of faith, and prepare to be suprised...your answer may not lie in Carmel....He may have something completely different in mind for you....Where your intimacy will grow even deeper....it may or may not be a hermit order..or another type of order...

I only say this because His answer in my Journey is so suprising to me..it's taking into account the whole of my personality...I am continually suprised and awe struck...I have no words.

It's your journey and your story, and I respect and Love that. I have 100% confidence in you and our Lord to lead you to where you are meant to be.
I just wanted to share my suprises so that you did not feel weird or bad. This is all a part of a process..and it takes time..How wonderful that you still have a Vocation! Remember that many would have bailed out by now. You have shown great courage and Love.

Blessings
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P4C[/quote]


P4C - you are so sweet to want to make me feel better! Thank you for sharing your own experiences of prayer. It sounds very well balanced for you. You are right in that we need a balance of different types of prayer and that is why I found Carmel so hard - because all of the activities are done in common, including mental prayer. If I had been able to spend an hour or two alone during the day, then I think the balance would have been maintained for me, but I found myself trying to find a few minutes here and there during the day when I could return to our cell just to be alone. In fact, the amount of activities we had to do during the day and the way everything was scheduled minute by minute (and many extra chores squeezed in), I actually felt I was living more of an active and pressured life in Carmel than I did in the world! It did not feel balanced at all to me, and even our extraordinary confessor told me that he felt it had an unbalanced work ethic. But I understand that not everyone needs or wants time alone, and that Carmel's routine was probably ok for many others there (although on occasion I did hear some others say they felt it was unbalanced towards work).

My day now consists of caring for an elderly lady 24/7 six days per week (live-in). This includes showering her, changing her, dressing and undressing her, getting her to meals, doctors, hairdressers, grocery shopping etc. It is a very active life in some ways, but the activity is limited to certain times, and the rest of the time I can spend alone in my room to pray the Divine Office, pray for others, go online or read, and contemplate. I attend Mass at 7am every morning and have Sundays off. So, all in all, the life is very quiet and gives me space and time for God - and yet it feels "balanced" in terms of prayer and work. If God weren't calling me to do something for Him, then this life would have much to recommend it.

But now we get on to a topic that is a passion of mine and on which I have very strong opinions! I hope I don't offer offence here to anything you have said but whenever I come across this topic, I need to address it because I feel so strongly about it! The thing that I have heard over and over again, especially in relation to consolations from God is that "It is not about feelings." You didn't use those words, but they have been said to me over and over again by various other people when I talk about God and wanting time to be in His presence alone. The worry seems to be that one will "overindulge" in God in some way. I don't believe this is possible. God gives what God wants to give, and if He gives us consolations, then we would be geniuses not to accept these. Some people are given more, some less, depending on what He knows is best for each soul, but to try to avoid consolations just seems like refusing gifts that one's Beloved is trying to bestow. St Teresa may have told us not to "chase" visions and ecstasies, but she also said that the graces that God bestowed upon her through these consolations were instrumental in increasing virtues in her, and that she could not have achieved the same level of virtue on her own. It is my own personal opinion that people have misunderstood much of what St Teresa and St John of the Cross have said about consolations and that these misunderstandings have made it difficult for those who receive consolations because they think they shouldn't want them! Even in the Third Spiritual Alphabet, which was greatly loved by St Teresa, we are told that it is much better to seek the consolations of God than to seek the consolations of this world. Since no one can make these consolations manifest except God, why would we think that receiving them would be in some way be harmful? I am not trying to encourage actively "seeking" consolations from God (although even this is better than chasing them in the world), but when one is already being graced with such things, then obviously they are sent by God for a reason and should be accepted as the great gift that they are. This means spending as much time as necessary in private prayer to allow God to do His work in the soul. Prayer time should not be limited by us because we fear to receive God's graces but only by our other responsibilities and duties. If we have the time to do so, then God deserves that we should sit in adoration as long as we can. When the cup is full (usually to overflowing), then we will know it is time to stop, but not because we have set some arbitrary time limit to avoid the dangers of getting too attached to His consolations. See, the way I look at it, God IS His consolations (He is the God OF consolations) and therefore we are getting attached to HIM! I think the bigger worry in this day and age is that people don't spend enough time with God alone in prayer. Maybe when we are all such great saints that we are in ecstasy for 12 hours out of the 24, then we should start worrying about spending too much time in prayer. Until then, I think we can feel safe in spending as much time as possible in contemplation, just letting God do His work on our souls! Our own weak human nature will drive us to leave contemplation eventually anyway. As you pointed out, the evil one stirs up all kinds of thoughts, and even our own weaknesses cause us to feel sleepy (remember the apostles falling asleep in the garden instead of praying with Jesus?) or to suddenly think of a million things we need to do instead of praying right now! I don't think that we need to add "too many consolations" or "too attached to consolations" to the list of things that stop us from praying! And when God has filled our soul, then all we want to do is to give something back to Him - it is natural and inevitable. So even our selfishness in wanting to be alone with God will get turned into an act of self-giving when we find ourselves so full that we just have to do something for Him in return. Since we can't actually GIVE anything to Him, we are left with His request that we love one another as He has loved us -- and this means doing something for others. Hence the consolations of God lead to acts of charity! End of my passionate speech!

As for where I am being called by God, the funny thing is that I don't have any worries about that right now. I would be perfectly happy in many ways just to stay in the situation where I am, living a semi-hermit life. But I think the only reason that it all feels ok right now is because I feel He is asking me to do something for Him and I have to wait for that to unfold. Rosalind has emailed me that she will send me the rule and application form next week (she is away again this week) and then we will get together for a chat. I am not even really very excited right now because I feel such a deep down peace in my soul. You can be sure I will be enjoying my solitude as long as it lasts though!

God bless.

[praying4carmel]

Thank you Annie, for your beautiful reply...Much food for thought, well reasoned with heartfelt experience..I was not in the Least offended..You are absolutely correct to say it is not about feelings..in deep contemplative prayer, the consolations of God are so much more than that...and if they are about feelings alone or just ecstasies then I would be concerned..my concern was only to share the fact that I can get too caught up on one side of my life or another either active or contemplative, and that it's been wonderful to find that balance for me. I could sit with the Lord all day, and that's not necessarily wrong..it's that for me I have had to learn to seek a balance. Indpls Carmel had a nice balance for me, Work, silence, cell time, LOH, just a beautiful circle of life. But we all know where that has ended and I am hoping that Cleveland is much the same as they are a very close community to Indpls. in spirit, and friendship. (Did you know that Cleveland shows 2 sisters in habit in their brochure? Granted it was some years ago, however, I thought that was pretty neat. When I go I will ask if the Habit can be worn as a Choice).

My prayers and heart go out to you because I thirst for prayer the way you do and I can understand why you felt that Wolverhampton was a bit busy for you...it's not, once again, a failing of you or that Carmel, it just was not the right fit for for your life.
And that's OK.

I think it's wonderful that you will be talking to Rosalind, and that you feel at peace in your soul. I am in agreement with you that the Lord has something in mind for you, and it will unfold. It's beautiful that you are doing caretaking right now..that is a beautiful labor of Love...

Count on my prayers! Thank you also for your continued correspondence in a public forum..I thnk it helps many who are discerning, to see everyone's opinions and replies.

Blessings and Peace,
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Nancy

[HolyHearts]

[quote name='praying4carmel' post='1515805' date='May 1 2008, 11:57 AM']Thank you Annie, for your beautiful reply...Much food for thought, well reasoned with heartfelt experience..I was not in the Least offended..You are absolutely correct to say it is not about feelings..in deep contemplative prayer, the consolations of God are so much more than that...and if they are about feelings alone or just ecstasies then I would be concerned..my concern was only to share the fact that I can get too caught up on one side of my life or another either active or contemplative, and that it's been wonderful to find that balance for me. I could sit with the Lord all day, and that's not necessarily wrong..it's that for me I have had to learn to seek a balance. Indpls Carmel had a nice balance for me, Work, silence, cell time, LOH, just a beautiful circle of life. But we all know where that has ended and I am hoping that Cleveland is much the same as they are a very close community to Indpls. in spirit, and friendship. (Did you know that Cleveland shows 2 sisters in habit in their brochure? Granted it was some years ago, however, I thought that was pretty neat. When I go I will ask if the Habit can be worn as a Choice).

My prayers and heart go out to you because I thirst for prayer the way you do and I can understand why you felt that Wolverhampton was a bit busy for you...it's not, once again, a failing of you or that Carmel, it just was not the right fit for for your life.
And that's OK.

I think it's wonderful that you will be talking to Rosalind, and that you feel at peace in your soul. I am in agreement with you that the Lord has something in mind for you, and it will unfold. It's beautiful that you are doing caretaking right now..that is a beautiful labor of Love...

Count on my prayers! Thank you also for your continued correspondence in a public forum..I thnk it helps many who are discerning, to see everyone's opinions and replies.

Blessings and Peace,
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Nancy[/quote]

Nancy -
You might want to try the Carmel in Savannah, Georgia. They are a bit more up-dated but with more quiet
time, to be sure. Also, they need vocations badly. The name of the Prioress is Sr, Joann of John of the Cross.
They use a modified habit. The grounds are beautiful!

[cathoholic_anonymous]

[quote name='nunsense' post='1515247' date='Apr 30 2008, 09:41 PM']P4C - you are so sweet to want to make me feel better! Thank you for sharing your own experiences of prayer. It sounds very well balanced for you. You are right in that we need a balance of different types of prayer and that is why I found Carmel so hard - because all of the activities are done in common, including mental prayer. If I had been able to spend an hour or two alone during the day, then I think the balance would have been maintained for me, but I found myself trying to find a few minutes here and there during the day when I could return to our cell just to be alone.[/quote]

In Quidenham the sisters spend the two hours of mental prayer alone (although you can stay in your choir stall if you wish). I usually prayed in the choir in the morning and went to my cell for the evening. The nuns are in their cells for forty-five minutes of solitary spiritual reading each day, and they have an hour of free time that they must spend alone, to counterbalance the hour of communal recreation in the evening. This is an especially silent time in the monastery. The older sisters nap. The younger ones pray or read or go for walks in the grounds. I didn't realise that the schedule differed so much from Carmel to Carmel.

[praying4carmel]

[quote name='Cathoholic Anonymous' post='1515821' date='May 1 2008, 12:22 PM']I didn't realise that the schedule differed so much from Carmel to Carmel.[/quote]

Seems so CA..I did not realize this either until I started checking things out. I think it's good for people to know.