Circumcision Immoral

[Deb]

[quote name='CatholicMax' post='1497323' date='Apr 11 2008, 04:08 PM']No i really am not angry like i said i was but not anymore. I am driven which is different.

and yes, they did such a bad job that the cut the entire tip off and he bleed to death. one serious problem is that at that age you dont know how each child is going to bleed form even just the littlist cut.[/quote]

Babies do not have a large quantity of blood in their bodies to begin with so Doctors have to be very careful with instructions on what is normal and not normal amounts of blood to be lost from any operation or injury. I really am so very sorry for your loss.

[BeenaBobba]

I don't think I will have my future sons circumcized. Personally, I don't see the point. Yes, they may look different from a lot of their peers, but it's been said that infant circumcision is declining here in America, so it may not even be too big of a problem.

P.S. I'm really sorry to hear about your son, CatholicMax.

[Aloysius]

this thread should not become a tangent for discussing things like tattoos, but it is not mutilation in the sense intended by the CCC in my estimation any more than ear piercings are mutilations; however, the point I was making is that circumcision is clearly an entirely different animal... there is a longstanding tradition of the Church actively and pro-actively opposing the concept of circumcising for reasons based not only upon the natural law, but also on covenant theology and such. I personally see a huge difference between a tattoo and a circumcision, and I definitely believe that the removal of the foreskin is definitively mutilation whereas the artistic use of ink and scars on a body, within reason, is not mutilation insofar as it does not make a substantial alteration to the body and has a purpose.

circumcision once had a purpose which made it acceptable (as it was a divine purpose) too, so it is not that in theory nothing at all can be done to change the look of the body. it is not an inherent evil because otherwise God could not have used it as a sign of his covenant; it is, however, something which is not acceptable for a purpose for Christians but is only acceptable if it can be shown that it is the only good medical therapeutic option; it cannot be considered acceptable for any cultural reason, religious or otherwise, but only for medical reasons; however in my estimation tattoos and ear piercings can be used for cultural reasons. the reason circumcision cannot be done for cultural reasons is precisely because it was used as the sacred sign of the covenant... it's like how a sports team retires a jersey. we are not ancient Israel, nor should we want to be; it is a new era and as Christians we are called to acknowledge that in part by not using the sign of the old era as any type of cultural sign whatsoever.

I know not all religious art was totally banned under the First Commandment, the point is that it was mostly banned however and it is only through the incarnation that images are so redeemed that we can use it completely without fear. the only religious art in ancient Israel was the few things God commanded directly, other than that they did not make graven images because creation had to be redeemed before images could be freely used for sacred purposes again.

[CatholicMax]

[quote name='Deb' post='1498833' date='Apr 13 2008, 08:16 PM']Babies do not have a large quantity of blood in their bodies to begin with so Doctors have to be very careful with instructions on what is normal and not normal amounts of blood to be lost from any operation or injury. I really am so very sorry for your loss.[/quote]
Thank you for your consolation, however this does not have any real baring on the conversation other than explaining death really does happen.

my question is in light of your statement does that mean you agree with my assertion.

[Deb]

[quote name='CatholicMax' post='1500066' date='Apr 15 2008, 02:22 PM']Thank you for your consolation, however this does not have any real baring on the conversation other than explaining death really does happen.

my question is in light of your statement does that mean you agree with my assertion.[/quote]


Yes I do. You have opened my eyes to not only the dangers of circumcision but also to the church teaching on it. Thank you.

[CatholicMax]

[quote name='Deb' post='1500078' date='Apr 15 2008, 01:52 PM']Yes I do. You have opened my eyes to not only the dangers of circumcision but also to the church teaching on it. Thank you.[/quote]
Then unless there is someone who wants to refute what has been said, I think this debate has successfully been concluded.

[CatholicMax]

[url="http://www.fathermag.com/health/circ/"]http://www.fathermag.com/health/circ/[/url]
just posting this link for the benefit of those who might look at this thread later