Something Biblical And Scientific To Rebut The Big Bang Theory

[genxcathedra]

...but, even to some "reasonable" Catholics, he is probably a reject, uninformed, ignorant, biased or any other slander one can think of in their insecurity as a "reasonable" Catholic since the scientific community is given the blind authority that Catholics once gave priests. Maybe priests screwed up once and lost people, but don't think those atheists and neo-pagans of the scientific community who have an agenda miss what power they have to declare anything as truth because they are scientists. Despite what some of them say, Einstein stated the interdependence between science and religion to come to realize what God has been doing here. Of course, dogma rules it all and so some things will be true if science is hesitant--like contraception being a bad thing.

If you are truly open-minded, you'll at least give this a listen and hear the priest's other sermons about scientific things. The long Lenten talks, as well as other sermons on this site have very interesting things to know, even if you don't believe him on topics of science!

it's audiosancto dot org.

[Archaeology cat]

I'll have to look at it, though I would point out that a Catholic priest, Georges Lemaître, was one of the scientists to first propose the Big Bang Theory.

[Didacus]

Any transcripts?

[JesusIsMySuperHero]

[quote name='Archaeology cat' post='1525551' date='May 12 2008, 02:45 AM']I'll have to look at it, though I would point out that a Catholic priest, Georges Lemaître, was one of the scientists to first propose the Big Bang Theory.[/quote]

Maybe he was deceived. . .

Look, I look at this old earth and evolution stuff as essentially evil, as it testifies something evil about God's Character.

If God never changes, then why did the God who loved us less fit sinners send his more fit son so we less fit sinners could believe on the more fit son so we could be with God forever, when he created life the exact opposite way - allowing the more fit individuals to survive on the deaths of the less fit ones?!

That just doesn't make sense, and to quote Judge Judy, if it doesn't make sense, then its a lie!

[Archaeology cat]

[quote name='JesusIsMySuperHero' post='1525629' date='May 12 2008, 03:12 PM']Maybe he was deceived. . .

Look, I look at this old earth and evolution stuff as essentially evil, as it testifies something evil about God's Character.

If God never changes, then why did the God who loved us less fit sinners send his more fit son so we less fit sinners could believe on the more fit son so we could be with God forever, when he created life the exact opposite way - allowing the more fit individuals to survive on the deaths of the less fit ones?!

That just doesn't make sense, and to quote Judge Judy, if it doesn't make sense, then its a lie![/quote]
The Big Bang is not about Darwinian evolution or "survival of the fittest", so I'm not sure what you're getting at here with that part.

As for the age of the earth, I see no reason why all the dating methods available would be wrong in that regard, and all show the earth to be older than just 6000 years old. The earth being 6,000 years old, if I understand it correctly, was determined by looking at the genealogies given in the Bible and tracing back. However, in such genealogies it was quite common to not include every single generation, but those which were deemed more important (Matthew does this with the genealogy of Jesus to get the same number of generations from Abraham to David, David to the Babylonian captivity, and the captivity to Jesus).

[Deb]

The Big Bang could have been the start of God's creation of the earth. As for the age of the earth, I am pretty sure it is more than 6000 years old. That doesn't mean that when the bible says God created everything in six days that his day was like hours. Each of his day could have been ten million years long.
To me, that is a mystery that will be revealed when I meet the Lord. Until then, I just believe that he is the creator of all, seen and unseen.

[JesusIsMySuperHero]

[quote name='Archaeology cat' post='1525639' date='May 12 2008, 09:23 AM']The Big Bang is not about Darwinian evolution or "survival of the fittest", so I'm not sure what you're getting at here with that part.

As for the age of the earth, I see no reason why all the dating methods available would be wrong in that regard, and all show the earth to be older than just 6000 years old. The earth being 6,000 years old, if I understand it correctly, was determined by looking at the genealogies given in the Bible and tracing back. However, in such genealogies it was quite common to not include every single generation, but those which were deemed more important (Matthew does this with the genealogy of Jesus to get the same number of generations from Abraham to David, David to the Babylonian captivity, and the captivity to Jesus).[/quote]

First of all, there is no reliable dating methods beyond 6000 years. Trust me on this, as I have a bit of a scientific background.

Second, you are giving a completely non-related argument to my argument. I don't believe God evolved life, because the God who evolved life would mean God values the more fit over the less fit, which contradicts scripture - that he valued the less fit sinners over his son, by sending his son so that we could be with him!

On your thoughts about the genealogies, But at the same time in Matthew, it was this person begat that person, who begat that person. So, yes, not every child that the first person begot was mentioned, but it was a continous line of whom begot who, who begot whom!

[Archaeology cat]

[quote name='Deb' post='1525644' date='May 12 2008, 03:28 PM']The Big Bang could have been the start of God's creation of the earth. As for the age of the earth, I am pretty sure it is more than 6000 years old. That doesn't mean that when the bible says God created everything in six days that his day was like hours. Each of his day could have been ten million years long.
To me, that is a mystery that will be revealed when I meet the Lord. Until then, I just believe that he is the creator of all, seen and unseen.[/quote]



[quote name='JesusIsMySuperHero' post='1525646' date='May 12 2008, 03:31 PM']First of all, there is no reliable dating methods beyond 6000 years. Trust me on this, as I have a bit of a scientific background.

Second, you are giving a completely non-related argument to my argument. I don't believe God evolved life, because the God who evolved life would mean God values the more fit over the less fit, which contradicts scripture - that he valued the less fit sinners over his son, by sending his son so that we could be with him!

On your thoughts about the genealogies, But at the same time in Matthew, it was this person begat that person, who begat that person. So, yes, not every child that the first person begot was mentioned, but it was a continous line of whom begot who, who begot whom![/quote]
In the genealogies, saying this person "begat" that person is often used of ancestors, regardless of how distant. So the same terminology would be used whether it was talking of a father-son relationship or a great-grandfather to great-grandson relationship.

I'm sorry if I misinterpreted your argument above - I thought you were getting into "survival of the fittest", and so I was pointing out that the Big Bang Theory is not about survival of the fittest.

And yes, when properly calibrated, there are accurate dating methods past 6000 years.

But we're getting off-topic, so I'll leave it at that for now.

[Archaeology cat]

Okay, so I've listened to it now, and he does have some interesting points. I won't claim to be a physicist or astronomer, so I won't get into those points but I do have some questions.

1) He mentions that there isn't any dark matter, but I thought they had recently discovered dark matter. Not that I can't be wrong, just thought I'd seen that.

2) His critique of methodology seems to focus a lot on Hawking, who isn't the only one to come up with this theory.

I personally don't see a contradiction between the Big Bang and the creation account in Genesis if one acknowledges that God caused the Big Bang, while this priest seems to think they are mutually exclusive. I would call that a false dichotomy. Of course, with only 16 minutes, he obviously can't expound on everything.

If I get a chance, Didacus, I'll type out a transcript of it, since it's fairly short. I want to listen to it again anyway to make sure I'm not misunderstanding what he's saying, and in case I missed something.

[CatherineM]

I can't think of a better way that an ancient writer could describe a vision of the big bang given to him in inspiration from the Holy Spirit than "God said let there be light."

[kujo]

[quote name='Deb' post='1525644' date='May 12 2008, 11:28 AM']The Big Bang could have been the start of God's creation of the earth. As for the age of the earth, I am pretty sure it is more than 6000 years old. That doesn't mean that when the bible says God created everything in six days that his day was like hours. Each of his day could have been ten million years long.
To me, that is a mystery that will be revealed when I meet the Lord. Until then, I just believe that he is the creator of all, seen and unseen.[/quote]

I agree. I don't think there's any reasonable way to dispute this stuff. If we confine God to 6 days lasting 24 hours, we are forcing His Divinity into our humanity. It don't make sense. It could've lasted 6 days, 10 years, 173 million...who cares? It doesn't deny anything about God:

1. The earth was made.
2. God made it and everything in it.

Everything else is just details.

[quote name='JesusIsMySuperHero' post='1525646' date='May 12 2008, 11:31 AM']First of all, there is no reliable dating methods beyond 6000 years. Trust me on this, as I have a bit of a scientific background.

Second, you are giving a completely non-related argument to my argument. I don't believe God evolved life, because the God who evolved life would mean God values the more fit over the less fit, which contradicts scripture - that he valued the less fit sinners over his son, by sending his son so that we could be with him![/quote]

Dude, as much as I like you, I am not going to just "trust you on this." Post some information because everything I've read and studied which suggests otherwise.

Secondly, I am sorry that you don't see the beauty in God's plan. We all die, dude. At some point, we are all less fit and we die out. That's it. It doesn't mean God doesn't love us. It means our natural body processes have reached their end and will inevitably shut down. Does dying imply a lack of love from our Lord?

Thirdly, the Big Bang just says that universe was made. That's it. I love discussing the Big Bang Theory because I say the same thing: I will accept every step in the process that took place for the universe to be made. But it all comes down to one question--who started it?

The answer, as we know, is God!

[quote name='CatherineM' post='1525746' date='May 12 2008, 01:42 PM']I can't think of a better way that an ancient writer could describe a vision of the big bang given to him in inspiration from the Holy Spirit than "God said let there be light."[/quote]

[Archaeology cat]

[quote name='CatherineM' post='1525746' date='May 12 2008, 05:42 PM']I can't think of a better way that an ancient writer could describe a vision of the big bang given to him in inspiration from the Holy Spirit than "God said let there be light."[/quote]


And good points, kujo.

And now, for something lighthearted: [url="http://www.sumware.com/creation.html"]the creation account[/url]

[kujo]

[quote name='Archaeology cat' post='1525780' date='May 12 2008, 02:44 PM']And now, for something lighthearted: [url="http://www.sumware.com/creation.html"]the creation account[/url][/quote]

[Deb]

[quote name='Archaeology cat' post='1525780' date='May 12 2008, 01:44 PM']

And good points, kujo.

And now, for something lighthearted: [url="http://www.sumware.com/creation.html"]the creation account[/url][/quote]


Too cute!

[cmotherofpirl]

The idea that the earth is 6000 years old is the invention of a protestant minister from the 1800's. It has no credence, except to those people who forget that God gave us a brain as well as a soul. I have arrowheads more than 6,000 years old, and people have been in my part of North America for 15,000, so please put that nonsense to rest.
THere is nothing wrong with the big bang theory or any other theory as to HOW it was done. The important part [for us at least] is that God did it. AS previously pointed out, that is all that really matters.

[Adrestia]

[quote name='JesusIsMySuperHero' post='1525646' date='May 12 2008, 09:31 AM']Second, you are giving a completely non-related argument to my argument. I don't believe God evolved life, because the God who evolved life would mean God values the more fit over the less fit, which contradicts scripture - that he valued the less fit sinners over his son, by sending his son so that we could be with him![/quote]Do you think it would be wrong to say that God created life that has the ability to adapt to its surroundings?

IMHO, science can not be at odds with theology. Scientists observe and measure natural phenomenon. God created natural phenomenon. Therefore, no scientific "discovery" can dispute the existence of God. They only highlight what a great Creator He is.

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='tgoldson' post='1526860' date='May 13 2008, 09:08 AM']Do you think it would be wrong to say that God created life that has the ability to adapt to its surroundings?

IMHO, science can not be at odds with theology. Scientists observe and measure natural phenomenon. God created natural phenomenon. Therefore, no scientific "discovery" can dispute the existence of God. They only highlight what a great Creator He is.[/quote]

[JesusIsMySuperHero]

Guess what guys,

All the Fossils in the world were created by the flood, which happened 5000 years ago!

Because if you take billions, upon billions of gallons of water, which would cause massive land upheavals, animals that were not in the ark would quickly be encased in the mud and debris, and would fossilize!

Are you guys so ignorant of the flood? That is a sign of the times!

And why did God do that, he wanted to get rid of the more fit Giants, so Noah, a righteous man - who was less fit than a giant, and his family would live!

God has always been one who fights the battles of the weak, bringing the strong under his judgment when the strong decide it is their right to abuse the weak!

I hope to see you guys congratulate your Intelligence more and more! Pride cometh before a fall!

Edited May 13, 2008 by JesusIsMySuperHero

[HisChildForever]

[quote name='JesusIsMySuperHero' post='1526966' date='May 13 2008, 11:47 AM']Guess what guys,

All the Fossils in the world were created by the flood, which happened 5000 years ago!

Because if you take billions, upon billions of gallons of water, which would cause massive land upheavals, animals that were not in the ark would quickly be encased in the mud and debris, and would fossilize!

Are you guys so ignorant of the flood? That is a sign of the times!

And why did God do that, he wanted to get rid of the more fit Giants, so Noah, a righteous man - who was less fit than a giant, and his family would live!

God has always been one who fights the battles of the weak, bringing the strong under his judgment when the strong decide it is their right to abuse the weak!

I hope to see you guys congratulate your Intelligence more and more! Pride cometh before a fall![/quote]

[Archaeology cat]

[quote name='JesusIsMySuperHero' post='1526966' date='May 13 2008, 03:47 PM']Guess what guys,

All the Fossils in the world were created by the flood, which happened 5000 years ago!

Because if you take billions, upon billions of gallons of water, which would cause massive land upheavals, animals that were not in the ark would quickly be encased in the mud and debris, and would fossilize!

Are you guys so ignorant of the flood? That is a sign of the times!

And why did God do that, he wanted to get rid of the more fit Giants, so Noah, a righteous man - who was less fit than a giant, and his family would live!

God has always been one who fights the battles of the weak, bringing the strong under his judgment when the strong decide it is their right to abuse the weak!

I hope to see you guys congratulate your Intelligence more and more! Pride cometh before a fall![/quote]
Giants - are you by chance referring to the Nephilim? If so, they were not giants; they are referred to using classic warrior language common to Semitic languages.

And the stratigraphy does not your premise of all those fossils being formed at the same time. From the available evidence, one cannot conclude that all the fossils were formed in that way.