Armed Resistance Is Close.

[FX2]

If a civil war was started over this i would take up arms. But think how much more bloodshed there would be. I mean during the civil war, the all the rebels were not fighting for slavery, they were fighting for their homeland, and because their neighbors were fighting.

What you are talking about Ironmonk, reminds me of someone blowing up an abortion clinic or running in there with a gun. I dont like that idea because innocent people die. Yet we are running out of options. But Dr King did it peacfully. How about sit ins? Such as surrounding a clinic and not letting any one in? The blacks did it in restarunts and got their point across with little bloodshed. I beleive we can do the same.

We shall overcome this, not with violence, but with determination. If u feel so pationately about this, do that, get arrested, for u are doing the right thing. Just like rosa parks got arrested. Get the youth , middle aged and all togeather. I mean during the racial movement, there were just as many senators if not less that supported what they were doing. If we do the same, we will have support too


I believe u need to think this through alot more. But if worse comes to worse, you got me.

[M.SIGGA]

[quote]We should learn from Dr. Martin Luther King. Jr.... Look how he took to the streets and stood up for what was right.[/quote]

Monk, Dr. King along with JPII preached all things could be changed with love and peace and solidarity and using Dr. King as an example to carry arms is really low.

JPII is the AUTHOR of the solidarity movement that swept through the Iron Block and when he is a great saint this will be one of the things he will be most remembered by.

The Old Testement also says to stone women and not eat pork.

If "pro-life" politicians were 100% loyal to the main reason people will cross party lines to elect them this might have been wiped out 20 years ago.

The Just War scenario is no where near to being totally exhausted as long as "abortion-ban" is still the unmentionable "A" word of supposed pro-life politicians at election time.

We still have abortion because this nation isn't 100% serious - my proof is why do the bishops still allow unrepentant "murders" and "accomplices to murder" the ability to recieve the Blessed Sacrament?

Surrendering ourselves totally to God is the answer because He is in control. The POWER OF PRAYER is stronger than any physical weapon because God promises to answer our prayers and he is LOYAL to his word and he ALWAYS delivers on time.

A Crusade to spread Faith would be more effective to end abortion, which would change the law and convert souls.

[God Conquers]

I think we're all just too comfy to go to jail for what we believe in.

[M.SIGGA]

[quote name='God Conquers' date='Mar 4 2004, 12:10 AM'] I think we're all just too comfy to go to jail for what we believe in. [/quote]
I think we are too quick to kill instead of protest and go to jail.

[God Conquers]

Yo Sigga! I was talking about jail time for peaceful protests brother! Not murder and mass destruction!

[ironmonk]

NO WHERE did I write we should pick up arms. I wrote it was CLOSE... and IT IS in line with what the Church teaches.

The Pope IS NOT a pacifist.


RE-READ THE FIRST POST!





LOOK AT THE CONTEXT.... I WAS TALKING ABOUT TAKING TO THE STREETS.

[the lumberjack]

guys, just my quick 2 cents, which I'm SURE you're already tired of...

its only gonna get worse...really.

there is NO hope for this world, it is like a boat with SOOOO many holes its sinking in its ever-rapidly spiraling lack of God in EVERYTHING and how it delights in its own filth. the oppression of the church and TRUTH for the embracing of a lie...

the seeking of self and all of the postmodern doctrine that has been preached throughout the world is a virus infecting to the very depths of the body of believers. "love everyone for who they are, accept them for who they are. Straight, gay, it doesn't matter...Fetuses aren't really people..." "just be good and do what feels good" and "god is in you, seek yourself for answers."

what a load of carp.

its only gonna keep going down from here, till we reach the time when Christ will come back for the church...

...so you guys do what you feel is necessary...but I'm just gonna keep lookin at the Scriptures mold, and holding up the signs of the times and fulfilled prophecies up to the Bible.

love.

[FX2]

i agree, but we gotta stop acting out and voicing our opionion in only our comfort zone. we gotta go to the streets! We have to go wherever we think they would not want to hear us. i mean like Jesus said, go, preach, and if they dont accept you shake the dust off your feet.

[the_rev]

I'm reading The cross at Ground Zero and everything here actually is touched upon in that book.

[M.SIGGA]

[quote name='the lumberjack' date='Mar 4 2004, 05:12 PM'] ...so you guys do what you feel is necessary...but I'm just gonna keep lookin at the Scriptures mold, and holding up the signs of the times and fulfilled prophecies up to the Bible.
[/quote]
I agree with your post that the World is finite and lost and if we think it's bad now it's only going to get worse and worse and all nations will turn against Israel and the Church, etc... But shouldn't your faith in Christ and the Holy Spirit working in you convict you to action on behalf of those who don't know Christ, do injustice, and blaspheme his Name? I don't think we are supposed to sit and wait for Jesus, but the command I recieved from the Gospel is to be ready for when he comes ... and those are two very different things.

[the lumberjack]

oh, I AM taking action, brother...and I proudly call you brother, by ministering in ANY way possible to anyone that doesn't know Christ...

and believe me, I WILL defend myself, should someone try to attack me and/or my family...

but I will do like the Bible commands, and "cause violence to no man"...

Jesus wasn't a pacifist either...."I came not to bring peace, but a sword"

now, of course He wasn't talking about a PHYSICAL sword...He was talking about division between His called and the world...even if it meant us leaving our families because they hate the fact that we are now following Christ.

but I will lay my life down for the Gospel of my Lord should I have to. I will proudly kiss the guillotine on that day.

For me, to live is Christ, and to die is gain.

word.

[M.SIGGA]

I gotcha and I feel the same way - I'm not a pacifist but I believe in peace and solidarity and the power of prayer and conversion because God has said make peace with your enemies and vengeance is mine (Romans 12) and I know He is always loyal and in His Word.

[quote]Romans
Chapter 12
1
1 2 I urge you therefore, brothers, by the mercies of God, to offer your bodies as a living sacrifice, holy and pleasing to God, your spiritual worship.
2
Do not conform yourselves to this age but be transformed by the renewal of your mind, that you may discern what is the will of God, what is good and pleasing and perfect.
3
For by the grace given to me I tell everyone among you not to think of himself more highly than one ought to think, but to think soberly, each according to the measure of faith that God has apportioned.
4
For as in one body we have many parts, and all the parts do not have the same function,
5
so we, though many, are one body in Christ 3 and individually parts of one another.
6
Since we have gifts that differ according to the grace given to us, let us exercise them: 4 if prophecy, in proportion to the faith;
7
if ministry, in ministering; if one is a teacher, in teaching;
8
if one exhorts, in exhortation; if one contributes, in generosity; if one is over others, 5 with diligence; if one does acts of mercy, with cheerfulness.
9
[b]Let love be sincere; hate what is evil, hold on to what is good[/b];
10
love one another with mutual affection; anticipate one another in showing honor.
11
Do not grow slack in zeal, be fervent in spirit, serve the Lord.
12
[b]Rejoice in hope, endure in affliction, persevere in prayer. [/b]
13
Contribute to the needs of the holy ones, exercise hospitality.
14
[b]6 Bless those who persecute (you), bless and do not curse them[/b].
15
Rejoice with those who rejoice, weep with those who weep.
16
Have the same regard for one another; do not be haughty but associate with the lowly; do not be wise in your own estimation.
17
[b]Do not repay anyone evil for evil; be concerned for what is noble in the sight of all.
18
If possible, on your part, live at peace with all. [/b]
19
[b]Beloved, do not look for revenge but leave room for the wrath; for it is written, "Vengeance is mine, I will repay, says the Lord."
20
Rather, "if your enemy is hungry, feed him; if he is thirsty, give him something to drink; for by so doing you will heap burning coals upon his head."
21
Do not be conquered by evil but conquer evil with good. [/b][/quote]

Lord Jesus our Savior, the Holy Comforter, the Wonderful Counselor, and the Prince of Peace; have mercy on us. Amen.

[Lil Red]

you know, in a hundred years, people will look back at this time and say, "What were they thinking, killing their future generations?" And shake their heads at us (as a society) and our weird ways.

[ironmonk]

[quote name='Lil Red Devil' date='Mar 5 2004, 05:58 PM'] you know, in a hundred years, people will look back at this time and say, "What were they thinking, killing their future generations?" And shake their heads at us (as a society) and our weird ways. [/quote]
I don't think there will be another 100 years if kill'dim babbies kerry gets in office.

From supporting global infancide to legalizing an abomination and calling it Holy will be the sure sign of the beginning of the end. Romans 1.

How many years are left from Fatima happened until the end? Was it Mary's hand full of sand or a child's?

I love my daughter; I should have been a priest and I wouldn't be putting a lift through such a horrible time in the history of the world.

God Bless,
ironmonk

[MC Just]

I'm with IronMonk on this one. It is very much needed.

[Aloysius]

bump

[God Conquers]

It is important to note that evangelization and prayer are more important and will do mightier things than violence will ever, ever accomplish.

[quote]About midnight, while Paul and Silas were praying and singing hymns to God as the prisoners listened,
26
there was suddenly such a severe earthquake that the foundations of the jail shook; all the doors flew open, and the chains of all were pulled loose.
27
When the jailer woke up and saw the prison doors wide open, he drew (his) sword and was about to kill himself, thinking that the prisoners had escaped.
28
But Paul shouted out in a loud voice, "Do no harm to yourself; we are all here."
29
He asked for a light and rushed in and, trembling with fear, he fell down before Paul and Silas.
30
Then he brought them out and said, "Sirs, what must I do to be saved?"
31
And they said, "Believe in the Lord Jesus and you and your household will be saved."
32
So they spoke the word of the Lord to him and to everyone in his house.
33
He took them in at that hour of the night and bathed their wounds; then he and all his family were baptized at once.
34
He brought them up into his house and provided a meal and with his household rejoiced at having come to faith in God.
35
But when it was day, the magistrates sent the lictors 8 with the order, "Release those men."
36
The jailer reported the (se) words to Paul, "The magistrates have sent orders that you be released. Now, then, come out and go in peace."
37
But Paul said to them, "They have beaten us publicly, even though we are Roman citizens and have not been tried, and have thrown us into prison. And now, are they going to release us secretly? By no means. Let them come themselves and lead us out." 9
38
The lictors reported these words to the magistrates, and they became alarmed when they heard that they were Roman citizens.
39
So they came and placated them, and led them out and asked that they leave the city.
40
When they had come out of the prison, they went to Lydia's house where they saw and encouraged the brothers, and then they left. [/quote]


If they had broken out of the prison, just as if we used violence to break out of the ethical prison of our society, they wouls have accomplished far less.

We must heed the example of the apostles, and the early Church, who conquered through prayer, perseverance and evangelism.

[ironmonk]

To perseverance is sometimes means to pick up the sword. Christ said there would be a time for the sword.

Ever hear of St. Joan of Arc?


[b]Sirach 4:28 [/b]Even to the death fight for truth, and the LORD your God will battle for you.


God Bless,
ironmonk

[dairygirl4u2c]

[quote]2) all other means of redress have been exhausted;
This is close. [/quote]

Isn't the overall change in favor of prolifers? I must be mistaken.

But there does seem to be an even split in the country over abortion. Which means that it's actually close to change.. unless it stays that way for a long time. In which case, it's so close, yet so far. Don't know how you'd judge that situation against that criteria. But that close split leads to...

[quote]4) there is well-founded hope of success; and
Check. If every pro-lifer stood up for the innocent, without doubt we would succeed.[/quote]

I know you're sure of it but I think I'll have to disagree with you there. It'd be a civil war of equal sided proportions.


Also, would you take action yourself or wait for the Vatican's approval? What if you think that the Vatican is not doing its job of telling RCs to fight? Then would you?

[mmmerf]

[quote name='the lumberjack' date='Mar 4 2004, 06:12 PM']
what a load of carp.
[/quote]
Goldfish have nothing to do with this.