Armed Resistance Is Close.

[mmmerf]

I was about to say a bunch of stuff about what I'd be willing to do.


But then I realized that if that were really the case, I'd already be doing it, because the need is already there.




The time has come for greater action. Not violence or bloodshed, but certainly more than what I'm doing.

Dave

[popestpiusx]

Where do I sign?

[ironmonk]

[quote name='dairygirl4u2c' date='Jul 22 2004, 04:58 PM']
Isn't the overall change in favor of prolifers? I must be mistaken.

But there does seem to be an even split in the country over abortion. Which means that it's actually close to change.. unless it stays that way for a long time. In which case, it's so close, yet so far. Don't know how you'd judge that situation against that criteria. But that close split leads to...



I know you're sure of it but I think I'll have to disagree with you there. It'd be a civil war of equal sided proportions.


Also, would you take action yourself or wait for the Vatican's approval? What if you think that the Vatican is not doing its job of telling RCs to fight? Then would you? [/quote]
There are more people for pro-life... but even if it was a minority, we must stand up because it's the right thing to do.


If the Catholic Church said do not do it, then we do not do it.


The Catholic Church's job is not to tell people to fight. The Catholic Church's job is to guide men to salvation, it is to let us know if the fight is a just cause.

The civil war would not be of equal proportions. If the past civil war was just because of slavery, then this civil war must be just because of innocent people being killed.

But all criteria must be met.

[Iacobus]

1st, 100,000 people killed? Are you nuts. The last time some one tried to break away from the US there 558,052 people killed. And they only could fire 3 times a minute. Now they can fire 800 times a minute. So be real in this. You would lead to a lot of death.

Moreover, war and fighting disrupts things. The amount of aftermath deaths would be soo massive that again I question your number.

Also, I can say, and be confortable in these two things, that if the time for armed conflict was to come it would not be decided by a member of the lay people.

And numbers don't matter. If God was more rejoicing in the return of the one lost than the 99 staied, it seems to appear numbers matter not. So would it matter if 1 person died or 1.3 million people died? Is the sin any greater or less? Will God have a harder time damning or forgiving you because of the amounts?

And if one person in killed by you crusade, one inncoent person, what are you fighting?

[Cure of Ars]

I always thought you needed a legitimate authority to take up arms. Isn’t this what St. Thomas taught about just war? There is no way that vigilantly revolution is just. It just gives the pro–abortion side more ammunition to call us crazy and discredit us.

[ironmonk]

GO BACK TO POST ONE. TAKE EVERYTHING POSTED INTO ACCOUNT.

IT IS JUSTIFIABLE IF ALL CRITERIA ARE MET ACCORDING TO THE Church.


pay attention.

[crusader1234]

It could be seen as justifiable and I sort of agree, but not something I'd personally support unless the Pope said we had to.

[Aloysius]

notice he said CLOSE, not that it is now necessary. this is a wake-up call.

continue and step up the peaceful resistance. there should be marches and protests making headlines every day. pro-abort politicians should get harassed with constant phone calls, emails, and letters.

[crusader1234]

I think by harassed you mean 'persistently and constantly reminded' dont you?

[Aloysius]

yeah. harassed.

[Cure of Ars]

[quote name='ironmonk' date='Jul 22 2004, 07:16 PM'] GO BACK TO POST ONE. TAKE EVERYTHING POSTED INTO ACCOUNT.

IT IS JUSTIFIABLE IF ALL CRITERIA ARE MET ACCORDING TO THE Church.


pay attention. [/quote]
I wouldn’t call it “close” until at least some Bishops (or parts to some other legitimate authority) start talking about picking up arms.

I agree we need to be more active in this fight.

[Aloysius]

The condition of the country is close to the conditions the Catechism says deserve armed resistance. very simple.

[crusader1234]

I don't think we should be going on any Crusades for the Church until the Pope commands it.

[Cure of Ars]

I would say it is not by the simple fact that the Pope and Bishops have not been talking about it.

The only one that I would say is 100% for sure is number one. The rest I am not so sure.

No disrespect intended towards ironmonk and Aloysius. I love you guys.

[Aloysius]

awwww :wub:

The Pope and Bishops don't need to talk about it for us to notice that the conditions are close to being met.

We're not talking about actually starting a war now. We're talking about the growing case that would make a just cause for a war and how it's dangerously close to being a just cause for war.

[crusader1234]

I'm not disagreeing but I dont think people should talk war. Its contrary to the CCC (we should be opposed to war) and we shouldn't be saying its getting close unless the Magesterium says so.

[conservativecatholic]

Ironmonk: I absolutely agree! The lives of millions are at stake. If Pro-Lifers do not get their act together soon, millions and possibly a billion babies will be murdered in the next 20 years. [b]JOIN THE ABORTION ROSARY MARCHES![/b] They truly work! Did you know that an abortion clinic here in Houston planted rose bushes outside the gates to muffle the Catholic Rosary recitations? Guess what! The roses keep on dying. Our Loving Father does not want beautiful flowers to bloom on evil soil! I have witnessed many mothers turn away from the abortion clinic's doors because of the Catholics reciting the Rosary! Everyone can help!

May God Bless through The Immaculate Heart of Mary!
-conservativecatholic

[Aloysius]

that's absurd. we shouldn't talk about it until the Magisterium says we should talk about it?

"we should be opposed to war" is not exactly what it says, it says we should work for the avoidance of war. which is exactly the warning we're giving: unless we can stop this evil, war will be justified. so work to stop this evil because that is working towards the avoidance of war.

we're not sittin around WANTING these conditions to be met, we're discussing how we should make them meet these conditions less.

[ironmonk]

[quote name='crusader1234' date='Jul 22 2004, 10:39 PM'] I'm not disagreeing but I dont think people should talk war. Its contrary to the CCC (we should be opposed to war) and we shouldn't be saying its getting close unless the Magesterium says so. [/quote]
The CCC is not opposed to war. The Pope is not a pacifist.

The Church is for Peace, sometimes to keep the peace, it takes war.

The Church does not say go to war, or says it's getting close.

I think you are missing the point. The criteria for a just war is close to getting met. We are to fight for truth. We can fight through prayer, fasting, and marching. We can also fight through arms.... as a last resort.

Do you think the Catholic Church opposed the civil war? No. This country was for slavery at the time, the Church was against slavery because of race. (The Church is not against indentured servants)

This is the same senario... but this time the stakes are graver... we're not talking about freedom to do as we wish... we talking about the right to life....

If it's ok to go to war over slavery, your beaver dam right to go to war over millions of innocent lives... 45,500,000 babies dead in the last 30 years.... Do we wait until 90,000,000 are killed by being torn apart? No.

hmmm... 580,000 lives... to give freedom to people to do as they wish.

How many lives is it worth to save the next 45,000,000 of the unborn?
I would give my life.

Even if 5,000,000 people died in saving the lives of 45,000,000 babies, then it's totally worth it. The needs of the many outweigh the needs of a few... according to the Word of God. As when the Holy Spirit spoke through the head rabbi... "It is better that one innocent man parish than the whole of Isreal".


If people don't want blood to be shed, then get out and preach until you can't preach no more, we must get EVERY abortion politician out of office.

[b]Luke 12:51 [/b][color=red]Do you think that I have come to establish peace on the earth? No, I tell you, but rather division. [/color]
[b]52 [/b][color=red]From now on a household of five will be divided, three against two and two against three; [/color]
[b]53 [/b][color=red]a father will be divided against his son and a son against his father, a mother against her daughter and a daughter against her mother, a mother-in-law against her daughter-in-law and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law." [/color]


Preach the truth. Save the unborn. Stand up and speak out to all those you know... urge them to do the same.

No abortionist may enter my house. I have lost friends over this. The murder of the unborn must stop.

If Catholics were Catholic this would not have ever gotten this bad.

We need to pray, fast, stand up. Speak out. Take to the streets, and bring the cities to a standstill until abortion is ended.


If that does not work, and all other measures are exhausted and the criteria is met, then we must take up arms and save the lives of the innocent.


God Bless.
ironmonk

[Iacobus]

And can you stop abortion without killing? Yes you can address the roots causes, something killing won't do.