God As Gender Neutral...

[cmotherofpirl]

[url="http://www.lep.co.uk/weirdnews/I-believeGod-is-a-man.4095585.jp"]http://www.lep.co.uk/weirdnews/I-believeGo...-man.4095585.jp[/url]

[Galloglasses]

God is a He as far as Jesus calls Him Our Father and that Jesus Himself is a He.
Other then that I see no real reason why people are confused or even worried about God's gender association.

Especially when it matters very little in the long run.

People only believe God is female or think that its discrimitory to think He is male because of their own esteem and what they want God to be.

[picchick]

God doesn't have a gender. So He is not a Him. He is not a Her. He is not an It. He is a spirit.

Jesus was male. So He is a Him. No neutrality there. Also we use Him as a reference to God as a whole because He is our Father.


Edit: I know I am contradicting myself but God the Father and God the Holy Spirit are spirits and thus are genderless. I think.

Edited May 20, 2008 by picchick

[Veridicus]

[quote name='picchick' post='1534694' date='May 20 2008, 11:28 AM']God doesn't have a gender. So He is not a Him. He is not a Her. He is not an It. He is a spirit.

Jesus was male. So He is a Him. No neutrality there. Also we use Him as a reference to God as a whole because He is our Father.
Edit: I know I am contradicting myself but God the Father and God the Holy Spirit are spirits and thus are genderless. I think.[/quote]


There is a difference between gender and sex. Sex is defined by one's genetics and physiological makeup. Obviously though God the Father has no 'sex' because of his absence of physical form. Gender is really more of an associative characteristic that proceeds from our sexual nature, but is somewhat dependent on our social context in relation to other people. For example, many of the 'manly' gender characteristics we uphold in the US are dependent on a man's relationship to a woman or their children. In this sense, I would think that God the Father [i]displays characters of male gender [/i] by his eternal nature, relationship to Mary, and eternal relationship to the Son. The fact that the relationships we can observe with God the Father reveal more of a male gender does not limit God the Father from possessing of expressing characteristics more closely associated with a female gender (compassion, maternal love, etc. etc.)

That's my two cents...it may not be completely in line with what the Church teaches cuz I've never looked into it. Once I do, I'll correct my fallacies!

[picchick]

Ok, if we are talking about gender as in the English language gender of nouns then God must be male. So agreed with you.

God is Father. The Church is Mother Church.

Edited May 20, 2008 by picchick

[CatherineM]

When people try that gender neutral stuff in Latin America, they just get a look like a dog that heard a weird noise. When your name for God is Señor, how are you going to neutral that up?

[Madame Vengier]

God is both Mother and Father, without reference to gender. Gender is a construct for humans and other animals. God is just God. The discussion of gender should not even apply. Since male and female are created in God's image (and not the other way around), then humans are the reflection of the various aspects of the nature of God, with the sole exception of gender since that's for animals only so that we can reproduce. But even human gender has a special uniqueness in the area of reproduction because humans are the only animal that can receive pleasure during the procreative act. Therefore, that too (bonding, physical, procreative love) is a reflection of the characteristics of God. God is not likened to us. We are likened to God. So we can't describe God by using a human construct like gender.

Edited May 20, 2008 by Madame Vengier

[Madame Vengier]

[quote name='CatherineM' post='1534819' date='May 20 2008, 01:25 PM']When your name for God is Señor, how are you going to neutral that up?[/quote]

That's not the name for God. That's the name for Lord. Like Our Lord Jesus Christ, or the Lord of Heaven and Earth.

[Madame Vengier]

[quote name='picchick' post='1534694' date='May 20 2008, 11:28 AM']God doesn't have a gender. So He is not a Him. He is not a Her. He is not an It. He is a spirit.

Jesus was male. So He is a Him. No neutrality there. Also we use Him as a reference to God as a whole because He is our Father.
Edit: I know I am contradicting myself but God the Father and God the Holy Spirit are spirits and thus are genderless. I think.[/quote]

I have heard it said that many spiritual masters and scripture scholars render the Holy Spirit has being of the feminine nature.

[KnightofChrist]

God should always be referred to in the masculine. This is Church teaching.

Fr. Ripperger has a good talk on this over at [url="http://www.sensustraditionis.org/multimedia.html"]http://www.sensustraditionis.org/multimedia.html[/url]

Title "The Angels" I highly suggest everyone to listen to it.

[KnightofChrist]

[quote name='Madame Vengier' post='1534857' date='May 20 2008, 02:04 PM']I have heard it said that many spiritual masters and scripture scholars render the Holy Spirit has being of the feminine nature.[/quote]

That would be heresy, The Church teachings God the Holy Spirit should always be referred to in the masculine.

[KnightofChrist]

Peter Kreeft also touches on this topic in his talk of why "Only boys can be daddies" or [url="http://www.peterkreeft.com/audio/09_priestesses.htm"]Women and the Priesthood.[/url]

[kenrockthefirst]

[quote name='picchick' post='1534694' date='May 20 2008, 11:28 AM']God doesn't have a gender. So He is not a Him. He is not a Her. He is not an It. He is a spirit.

Jesus was male. So He is a Him. No neutrality there. Also we use Him as a reference to God as a whole because He is our Father.
Edit: I know I am contradicting myself but God the Father and God the Holy Spirit are spirits and thus are genderless. I think.[/quote]
I've been ****-slapped for my distinction between gender and sex in another thread but I'll weigh in here, too. Gender is a linguistic construct that to some extent derives from physiological sex characteristics. In English we don't really worry about it too much because we use a gender-neutral definite article, "the." However, in other languages words have gender associations, e.g. "Das Radio" in German, which for whatever reason has a neuter definite article. However, once we get into pronouns, him, her, it, all bets are off. Jesus is easy, because clearly he was male from a physiological perspective. And since He referred to God as Father, there really isn't too much to get confused about there, either, although "God" referred to Himself as both father and mother in the OT. Jesus also referred to the Holy Spirit as "he," e.g. John 15:26. Problem sorted.

[Alycin]

I think of God as a "male" so to speak but I also think that God perfectly encompasses all masculine and all feminine "traits" to create the perfect complete being. Not necessarily gender neutral, but if we are going off the idea that both men and women are created in His image, then I would think that all the good qualities that are unique to each gender can be found in God.

I could be totally off.

[Galloglasses]

Ok, i'm going to bugger off this topic. For the record, i'm with the God-is-a-male crowd here, but this looks like a powder keg about to go off judging by the stark difference of opinion between Knightec, (whom I agree with) and Madam Venegir, (whom I disagree with).

By the by, this doesn't mean i'm backing down from a confrontation, just gonna wait till the ancillary discussions pass and the genuine debate begins. Then i'll come in with the tank brigade.

[CatherineM]

Madame-You're right about it being Lord instead of God. I lost a lot of my Spanish after my head injury. Sometimes it comes out in the middle of a sentence for no reason. That will make people look at you funny.

[Madame Vengier]

[quote name='Galloglasses' post='1534897' date='May 20 2008, 02:35 PM']Ok, i'm going to bugger off this topic. For the record, i'm with the God-is-a-male crowd here, but this looks like a powder keg about to go off judging by the stark difference of opinion between Knightec, (whom I agree with) and Madam Venegir, (whom I disagree with).

By the by, this doesn't mean i'm backing down from a confrontation, just gonna wait till the ancillary discussions pass and the genuine debate begins. Then i'll come in with the tank brigade.[/quote]

Wait a minute. You said you are with the "God is a male crowd" and then you state that you disagree with me. This makes no sense. I only said that God is neither male nor female (and he isn't--God doesn't have a gender) and that he embodies the characteristics of both Mother and Father. This is Church teaching. How exactly can you say you disagree with me???

[KnightofChrist]

[quote name='Madame Vengier' post='1534911' date='May 20 2008, 02:50 PM']Wait a minute. You said you are with the "God is a male crowd" and then you state that you disagree with me. This makes no sense. I only said that God is neither male nor female (and he isn't--God doesn't have a gender) and that he embodies the characteristics of both Mother and Father. This is Church teaching. How exactly can you say you disagree with me???[/quote]

Post 9 may have confused him.

[Galloglasses]

God has a gender, in the sense that by His nature and actions He appears masculine and especially because Christ called Him Our Father. He just has no sex. In terrestial creations gender is uniquely equated with the sex. Not so in God's case because He is Spirit. I also think its reasonable to assume souls who go to Heaven retain their masculinity or feminity as well. I personally would be confused to no end if I went to Heaven or Hell and ended up having no gender.

And no, God does not inhabit characteristics of the mother, that, strangely enough, is Christ's job. The idea that God is both Mother and Father is, ironically, heresy. That can noly work if we're talking about the Trinity as a whole, but this topic is regarding God the Father. (Case in point, there were some cases were the celebrating Priest at Mass referred to God as "Father-Mother God", this constituted Liturgical abuse. As The person of God the Priest is addressing is God the Father, hence the abuse)

But I'll get out of this for now till I see where this topic leads.

Edited May 20, 2008 by Galloglasses

[Madame Vengier]

[quote name='kenrockthefirst' post='1534885' date='May 20 2008, 02:20 PM']I've been ****-slapped for my distinction between gender and sex in another thread but I'll weigh in here, too. Gender is a linguistic construct that to some extent derives from physiological sex characteristics. In English we don't really worry about it too much because we use a gender-neutral definite article, "the." However, in other languages words have gender associations, e.g. "Das Radio" in German, which for whatever reason has a neuter definite article. However, once we get into pronouns, him, her, it, all bets are off. Jesus is easy, because clearly he was male from a physiological perspective. And since He referred to God as Father, there really isn't too much to get confused about there, either, although "God" referred to Himself as both father and mother in the OT. Jesus also referred to the Holy Spirit as "he," e.g. John 15:26. Problem sorted.[/quote]

It's not complicated. PEOPLE make it complicated.

God is neither male nor female.

We refer to him in the masculine because Jesus revealed him as Father.

He embodies attributes of both Mother and Father. Why? Because male and female natures were created in his image. That means mothers and fathers were created in God's image. Jesus also wept over Jerusalem and cried that he desired to love Jerusalem as a mother. (Oh, Jerusalem, Jerusalem, how often I wanted to gather your children as a hen gathers her young under her wings.) Jesus could express feminine and maternal love because he was God and a real Man.

The subject of the thread was not initiated to ask about Jesus' revelation of God as Father. It was about God as gender. Just because I said God is neither male nor female (he isn't) doesn't mean I was saying he isn't our Faither. Of course he's our Father. I think it's asinine for anyone to even have to point that out.

It's also asinine for people to read a person's comments and draw false conclusions.