God As Gender Neutral...

[kujo]

I saw a surfer kid the other day with a shirt that said "God is a Dude."

'Nuff said.

[Madame Vengier]

[quote name='Galloglasses' post='1534921' date='May 20 2008, 02:57 PM']And no, God does not inhabit characteristics of the mother, that, strangely enough, is Christ's job. The idea that God is both Mother and Father is, ironically, heresy.[/quote]

*sigh*

People like YOU are such a drag. People like YOU are the reason Phatmass regularly starts off with decent exchanges of ideas between intelligent and respectful people and then spirals down into chaos. Because of RUDE, FALSE, and OFFENSIVE statements like you just made. Statements that make people like me very angry and want to lash out.

Learn your catechism before you make such statement ever again!!!!!!!


[b]Catechism, #370. It says: "In no way is God in man's image. He is neither man nor woman. God is pure spirit in which there is no place for the difference between the sexes. But the respective "perfections" of man and woman reflect something of the infininte perfection of God: those of a mother and those of a father and husband."[/b]

[Madame Vengier]

[quote name='Galloglasses' post='1534921' date='May 20 2008, 02:57 PM']But I'll get out of this for now till I see where this topic leads.[/quote]

Thanks to me and not to YOU, it led straight to the Catechism.

[kujo]

[quote name='Madame Vengier' post='1534940' date='May 20 2008, 05:07 PM']*sigh*

People like YOU are such a drag. People like YOU are the reason Phatmass regularly starts off with decent exchanges of ideas between intelligent and respectful people and then spirals down into chaos. Because of RUDE, FALSE, and OFFENSIVE statements like you just made. Statements that make people like me very angry and want to lash out.

Learn your catechism before you make such statement ever again!!!!!!!
[b]Catechism, #370. It says: "In no way is God in man's image. He is neither man nor woman. God is pure spirit in which there is no place for the difference between the sexes. But the respective "perfections" of man and woman reflect something of the infininte perfection of God: those of a mother and those of a father and husband."[/b][/quote]

Haha...you laid it down there, Madame.

[Apotheoun]

Christ reveals the Triune God in masculine terms in the New Testament, and the Church is not free to alter that revealed teaching.

Thus, the first person of the Trinity is Father, the sole source of divinity, and He is called Father because He generates the Son and processes the Holy Spirit. While the second person of the Trinity is the Logos and Son of God, who is eternally begotten of the Father alone, and who becomes man through the incarnation. And finally, the third person of the Trinity is the Holy Spirit, the Lord and giver of Life, the sole source of the Church's sanctity, and of all holiness.

Now, of the three persons of the Trinity only the Son can be thought of as "Mother," for He is the Head of His body, which is the Church, the new mother of all the living, and the union between Christ and His body is so intimate that they form one living Man stretching throughout time.

Ultimately, the Christian tradition identifies God with the masculine gender, and the Church, i.e., the people of God, with the feminine.

The union between God and mankind is -- in the final analysis -- spousal.

[Deb]

[quote name='Madame Vengier' post='1534940' date='May 20 2008, 04:07 PM']*sigh*

People like YOU are such a drag. People like YOU are the reason Phatmass regularly starts off with decent exchanges of ideas between intelligent and respectful people and then spirals down into chaos. Because of RUDE, FALSE, and OFFENSIVE statements like you just made. Statements that make people like me very angry and want to lash out.

Learn your catechism before you make such statement ever again!!!!!!!


[b]Catechism, #370. It says: "In no way is God in man's image. He is neither man nor woman. God is pure spirit in which there is no place for the difference between the sexes. But the respective "perfections" of man and woman reflect something of the infininte perfection of God: those of a mother and those of a father and husband."[/b][/quote]

While that part of the Catechism is true, and we can all agree that God is pure spirit, when it comes to referring to God, he will always be male and the father.
In 239 it states that.."He is neither man nor woman: he is God. He also transcends human fatherhood and motherhood, althought he is their original standard: no one is father as God is Father.

240 goes on to say Jesus revealed that God is Father in an unheard-of sense: he is Father not only in being Creator; he is eternally Father in relation to his only Son, who is eternally Son only in relation to his Father: "No one knows the Son except the Father, and no one knows the Father except the Son and any one to whom the Son chooses to reveal him."


[sup][size=3]Everyone can debate the semantics of God being genderless or trying to make him female but, he is and always be referred to as Father. The term Father denotes male so that is the way most people are going to think of him. [/size][/sup]

[Apotheoun]

One must be careful when quoting CCC #370 that he does not take it in isolation, because through the incarnation God truly, and not in mere appearance, became man (i.e., a concretely existing male individual).

[Deb]

[quote name='Apotheoun' post='1534978' date='May 20 2008, 04:34 PM']One must be careful when quoting CCC #370 that he does not take it in isolation, because through the incarnation God truly, and not in mere appearance, became man (i.e., a concretely existing male individual).[/quote]

I agree completely. There is always something more to be considered.

[Galloglasses]

[quote name='Madame Vengier' post='1534940' date='May 20 2008, 03:07 PM']*sigh*

People like YOU are such a drag. People like YOU are the reason Phatmass regularly starts off with decent exchanges of ideas between intelligent and respectful people and then spirals down into chaos. Because of RUDE, FALSE, and OFFENSIVE statements like you just made. Statements that make people like me very angry and want to lash out.[/quote]

You're one to talk Miss. I wasn't aiming to make people lash out. Thanks for the personal commentary. I appreciate it

Edited May 20, 2008 by Galloglasses

[CatherineM]

I've never had trouble viewing God as father and as nurturer because my dad was the main nurturer in our house. My problem comes with inclusive language texts that bend over so backward to not offend anyone that they gut the meanings of the text. I still like the idea that the apostles were "fishers of men" rather than they would "fish for people." That kind of creeps me out like "Soyulent Green is people" did.

[Apotheoun]

[quote name='CatherineM' post='1535102' date='May 20 2008, 04:05 PM']"Soyulent Green is people."[/quote]

[Deb]

[quote name='Madame Vengier' post='1534940' date='May 20 2008, 04:07 PM']*sigh*

People like YOU are such a drag. People like YOU are the reason Phatmass regularly starts off with decent exchanges of ideas between intelligent and respectful people and then spirals down into chaos. Because of RUDE, FALSE, and OFFENSIVE statements like you just made. Statements that make people like me very angry and want to lash out.[/quote]


Truthfully, it is people like you, who write like you do above, who can't control anger, who take debates as personal gains or losses, who use caps, exclamation marks and insults to make their points, who make Phatmass at times unpleasant. Unpleasant to be involved with your attacks and unpleasant to witness you attacking others.

Now, it is hard to express most emotions in flat writing but, yours always comes through pretty clear. I am only saying this in hopes that maybe you will go through and read all the threads, see where major angry arguements pop up and assess who always seems to be involved in them.

Being passionate about your opinion or what you perceive to be correct is not always a bad thing unless it is presented in a bad way.

Mir,


Deb

Edited May 20, 2008 by Deb

[Cure of Ars]

It is true that God is not male or female. But in our relationship with God, He is more like a male and is revealed as such. God gives us grace, if we are willing to except this grace, that we give birth to in our lives. This is revealed in scripture and is not something we can just change due to current issues with the battle of the sexes. This does not mean that women and men are not equal in dignity, we just have different roles.

[kujo]

[quote name='Deb' post='1535215' date='May 20 2008, 08:51 PM']Truthfully, it is people like you, who write like you do above, who can't control anger, who take debates as personal gains or losses, who use caps, exclamation marks and insults to make their points, who make Phatmass at times unpleasant. Unpleasant to be involved with your attacks and unpleasant to witness you attacking others.

Now, it is hard to express most emotions in flat writing but, yours always comes through pretty clear. I am only saying this in hopes that maybe you will go through and read all the threads, see where major angry arguements pop up and assess who always seems to be involved in them.

Being passionate about your opinion or what you perceive to be correct is not always a bad thing unless it is presented in a bad way.

Mir,
Deb[/quote]

Very true.

[dominicansoul]

I always thought that man was made in the image of God, i.e. Adam...

woman was made to perfectly compliment man..i.e. Eve...

thus, woman is not necessarily created in the image of God in the same way Adam was created in the image and likeness of God, but woman is made in the image of God [i]through[/i] Adam.

For this reason, I know God is male and should be addressed as such

If this is extremely ridiculous to some of you, please don't hit me!

Edited May 21, 2008 by dominicansoul

[KnightofChrist]

Source [url="http://icatholicism.net/apologetics/radio-replies/rr3-i/rr3q11-13.html"]Radio Replies Volume Three: Personality of God
[/url]
[b]13. When you call God "Father" do you not imply that there is sex in God, and that He is masculine?[/b]

No. The word "Father" is used of God, not to imply that He is of the masculine gender, a quality proper to material bodies, but merely to denote our production by God; and this, not as by some blind mechanical force, but by an intelligent and loving Principle of Being. The word '"Father" is the nearest human expression [u]suitable[/u] for the proportionate truth to be declared. As directly drawn from human beings, of course, the word implies procreation by mutual cooperation between the sexes, and that supposes masculine and feminine. But when applied to God abstraction is made from the mode or process of production, and the sense is restricted to the fact of our production by God, and to the parental dispositions of God towards us. We thus express in our human way a characteristic which is really in God, though not precisely as it is in man. God is truly a Father to us.

[Madame Vengier]

[quote name='Apotheoun' post='1534971' date='May 20 2008, 03:30 PM']Christ reveals the Triune God in masculine terms in the New Testament, and the Church is not free to alter that revealed teaching.

Thus, the first person of the Trinity is Father, the sole source of divinity, and He is called Father because He generates the Son and processes the Holy Spirit. While the second person of the Trinity is the Logos and Son of God, who is eternally begotten of the Father alone, and who becomes man through the incarnation. And finally, the third person of the Trinity is the Holy Spirit, the Lord and giver of Life, the sole source of the Church's sanctity, and of all holiness.

Now, of the three persons of the Trinity only the Son can be thought of as "Mother," for He is the Head of His body, which is the Church, the new mother of all the living, and the union between Christ and His body is so intimate that they form one living Man stretching throughout time.

Ultimately, the Christian tradition identifies God with the masculine gender, and the Church, i.e., the people of God, with the feminine.

The union between God and mankind is -- in the final analysis -- spousal.[/quote]

No one is questioning the Fatherhood of God. But the original question was regarding "gender" of which God clearly has none. The other point was that God has attributes of both mother and father, as confirmed in the catechism.

We seem to be repeating ourselves and each other...some of us.

[Madame Vengier]

[quote name='dominicansoul' post='1535577' date='May 20 2008, 10:18 PM']For this reason, I know God is male and should be addressed as such[/quote]

God is not male, just as he is not female. Please re-read the quoted section from the catechism.

[dominicansoul]

[quote name='Madame Vengier' post='1535644' date='May 20 2008, 10:56 PM']God is not male, just as he is not female. Please re-read the quoted section from the catechism.[/quote]


I did read Deb's quote from the Cathechism.

[Veridicus]

[quote name='Apotheoun' post='1534971' date='May 20 2008, 03:30 PM']Ultimately, the Christian tradition identifies God with the masculine gender, and the Church, i.e., the people of God, with the feminine.

The union between God and mankind is -- in the final analysis -- spousal.[/quote]


Thank you!