Clinton Hands Obama The Nomination?

[Justin86]

Um, as Governor of Texas Bush:

*Overturned the former governor's ban on concealed weapons
*Successfully sponsored legislation for tort reform
*Maintained a budget surplus in Texas while also passing the largest tax cut in the State's history.

He was a better Governor than he was a President.

[kujo]

[quote name='tgoldson' post='1552432' date='Jun 1 2008, 01:10 PM']Like what? [url="http://texaspolitics.laits.utexas.edu/html/exec/features/0400_01.html"]Governor of TX does not count.[/url] The only weaker position is governor of Florida. (Isn't that ironic?)[/quote]

Wait a minute....why doesn't his tenure as Governor of Texas count? And where do you get off saying that it is a "weak" position? And what are you basing your all thing on? Sounds like a bunch of c.rap, if you ask me.

[Didymus]

[quote name='Justin86' post='1544306' date='May 26 2008, 10:56 PM']Ever notice the most liberal among us always build careers off of others and never do they achieve anything themselves?[/quote]

[quote name='Lisieux Flower' post='1550925' date='May 31 2008, 03:09 PM']And the most conservative. Case in point: George W.[/quote]

[quote name='Justin86' post='1552006' date='Jun 1 2008, 08:00 AM']1. "Most conservative hardly describes Bush.

2. While Bush went to Yale because of his family's legacy at the school, he has actually done some things he can add to his name with his political career, even before the White House. Hillary and Obama on the other hand...[/quote]

Whatever bro, whether he's conservative or a neo-con, the point still stands. You can't just pull off this statement about Bush not being as privileged as Hilary and expect to get away with it. You can say the same for Hilary because of the things she tried to do as first lady and as Senator.

To accuse her of building off of Bill while ignoring how much W built off of his father is pretty weak.

[Adrestia]

[quote name='kujo' post='1552470' date='Jun 1 2008, 11:46 AM']Wait a minute....why doesn't his tenure as Governor of Texas count? And where do you get off saying that it is a "weak" position? And what are you basing your all thing on? Sounds like a bunch of c.rap, if you ask me.[/quote]Why would I ask you? Read the link. I'm not making this up.

Here - I'll make it wasy for you:

From the University of Texas at Austin, Texas Politics:

"As Governor George W. Bush ran for President in 2000, reporters and pundits trotted out sound-bite versions of a lesson students have been taught about Texas for years: Compared to the U.S. President or the chief executives of other states, [b]the Texas Governor occupies a "weak" office[/b].

The main source of the relative weakness of the Texas Governor can be found in the historical conditions surrounding the Texas Constitution of 1876. [b]Mindful of the experience of Reconstruction – the period after the Civil War when [i]Republican[/i] governors wielded extensive executive powers and were resisted by [i]conservative[/i] elites in the state – the authors of the new constitution sought to rein in future governors. They did so by dispersing power that might otherwise be lodged in the chief executive's hands among a vast array of independently elected officials[/b]. Broad powers over the legal system, state budget and finances, education, transportation, agriculture, public utilities, and land development are delegated to officials who need not share the policies nor even be of the same political party as the governor.

The dispersal of power among different officials creates what is often called the [url="http://java%20script:openGlossWin("]plural executive[/url]. Unlike the federal system, where the cabinet secretaries and the other top executive officers serve at the pleasure of the President, the voters elect the corresponding officials in the Texas system, [b]giving the Governor no direct authority over them[/b]."

[Justin86]

[quote name='Didymus' post='1552675' date='Jun 2 2008, 05:56 AM']You can say the same for Hilary because of the things she tried to do as first lady and as Senator.[/quote]
Absoultely not. Everything that woman has tried to get passed has failed. She has nothing to her name.

[quote]To accuse her of building off of Bill while ignoring how much W built off of his father is pretty weak.[/quote]
When did I ignore it?

[quote name='tgoldson' post='1552677' date='Jun 2 2008, 05:58 AM']Why would I ask you? Read the link. I'm not making this up.

Here - I'll make it wasy for you:

From the University of Texas at Austin, Texas Politics:

"As Governor George W. Bush ran for President in 2000, reporters and pundits trotted out sound-bite versions of a lesson students have been taught about Texas for years: Compared to the U.S. President or the chief executives of other states, [b]the Texas Governor occupies a "weak" office[/b].

The main source of the relative weakness of the Texas Governor can be found in the historical conditions surrounding the Texas Constitution of 1876. [b]Mindful of the experience of Reconstruction – the period after the Civil War when [i]Republican[/i] governors wielded extensive executive powers and were resisted by [i]conservative[/i] elites in the state – the authors of the new constitution sought to rein in future governors. They did so by dispersing power that might otherwise be lodged in the chief executive's hands among a vast array of independently elected officials[/b]. Broad powers over the legal system, state budget and finances, education, transportation, agriculture, public utilities, and land development are delegated to officials who need not share the policies nor even be of the same political party as the governor.

The dispersal of power among different officials creates what is often called the [url="http://java%20script:openGlossWin%28"]plural executive[/url]. Unlike the federal system, where the cabinet secretaries and the other top executive officers serve at the pleasure of the President, the voters elect the corresponding officials in the Texas system, [b]giving the Governor no direct authority over them[/b]."[/quote]
I've already refuted this by listing the things Bush accomplished for Texas while Govnoner. Did you not see that?

[Adrestia]

[quote name='Justin86' post='1552767' date='Jun 1 2008, 03:27 PM'] I've already refuted this by listing the things Bush accomplished for Texas while Govnoner. Did you not see that?[/quote]I just disagree with your conclusions.

(I live here. The Lieutenant Gov wields the power. In my opinion, being chief lobbyist should not count for executive branch leadership experience.)

Edited June 1, 2008 by tgoldson

[Justin86]

[quote name='tgoldson' post='1552781' date='Jun 2 2008, 06:39 AM'](I live here. The Lieutenant Gov wields the power. In my opinion, being chief lobbyist should not count for executive branch leadership experience.)[/quote]
You could argue the same againist the President since he has to basically get everything he wants passed through Congress.

[CatherineM]

I've tried making that point about how little actual power to change laws the President has. No one has wanted to hear it.

[Adrestia]

[quote name='Justin86' post='1552795' date='Jun 1 2008, 03:48 PM']You could argue the same againist the President since he has to basically get everything he wants passed through Congress.[/quote]
then why are we so against Obama? stop contradicting yourself when it's convenient.

[ilovechrist]

i was scared to death the other morning when i went to go have my car fixed at the dealership...

two elderly gentlemen were discussing politics in the waiting room, and one brought up the slip-ups by Obama and his family during his campaign trail... the one Southern man responded very quickly with the thought of "i'd have more respect for Hilary if she just stood up during one of those debates, pulled a pistol out and shot that man"...

what happened to Southern hospitality? or did it ever exist?

no matter, i already know who i'm voting for.

[CatherineM]

Southern hospitality is alive and well, it has just never been directed universally. We never cared for carpet baggers for example.

[kujo]

[quote name='ilovechrist' post='1553293' date='Jun 1 2008, 08:39 PM']i was scared to death the other morning when i went to go have my car fixed at the dealership...

two elderly gentlemen were discussing politics in the waiting room, and one brought up the slip-ups by Obama and his family during his campaign trail... the one Southern man responded very quickly with the thought of "i'd have more respect for Hilary if she just stood up during one of those debates, pulled a pistol out and shot that man"...

what happened to Southern hospitality? or did it ever exist?

no matter, i already know who i'm voting for.[/quote]

Southern hospitality has always lived alongside a healthy dose of racism and ignorance.

Sadly, it's not exclusive...

[kenrockthefirst]

[quote name='Justin86' post='1552006' date='Jun 1 2008, 07:00 AM']1. "Most conservative hardly describes Bush.

2. While Bush went to Yale because of his family's legacy at the school, he has actually done some things he can add to his name with his political career, even before the White House. Hillary and Obama on the other hand...[/quote]
Bush is a rich little daddy's boy who got to where he is because of that. He's failed at everything he's attempted, including the presidency, and has had to be continually rescued by daddy's connections. Heck, Bush wouldn't even [i]be[/i] president if it weren't for daddy's connections.

The reality in life, of course, is that it's not what you know but who you know. We all benefit from the connections of family and friends. In Bush's case, it's just that the effect was particularly profound and, for the country, unfortunate.

[kujo]

[quote name='kenrockthefirst' post='1554413' date='Jun 2 2008, 02:54 PM']Bush is a rich little daddy's boy who got to where he is because of that. He's failed at everything he's attempted, including the presidency, and has had to be continually rescued by daddy's connections. Heck, Bush wouldn't even [i]be[/i] president if it weren't for daddy's connections.

The reality in life, of course, is that it's not what you know but who you know. We all benefit from the connections of family and friends. In Bush's case, it's just that the effect was particularly profound and, for the country, unfortunate.[/quote]

[Socrates]

[quote name='kenrockthefirst' post='1554413' date='Jun 2 2008, 12:54 PM']Bush is a rich little daddy's boy who got to where he is because of that. He's failed at everything he's attempted, including the presidency, and has had to be continually rescued by daddy's connections. Heck, Bush wouldn't even [i]be[/i] president if it weren't for daddy's connections.

The reality in life, of course, is that it's not what you know but who you know. We all benefit from the connections of family and friends. In Bush's case, it's just that the effect was particularly profound and, for the country, unfortunate.[/quote]
Oh yes, we'd all be so much better off if that nasty rich little Bush hadn't stolen the election from those self-made Proletariat Men of the People, Albert Gore Jr. and John Kerry (who had to work his way up from humble beginnings on the Kennedy's yacht)!

Get over it, please!

[kujo]

[quote name='Socrates' post='1555191' date='Jun 2 2008, 11:03 PM']Oh yes, we'd all be so much better off if that nasty rich little Bush hadn't stolen the election from those self-made Proletariat Men of the People, Albert Gore Jr. and John Kerry (who had to work his way up from humble beginnings on the Kennedy's yacht)!

Get over it, please![/quote]

[kenrockthefirst]

[quote name='Socrates' post='1555191' date='Jun 2 2008, 09:03 PM']Oh yes, we'd all be so much better off if that nasty rich little Bush hadn't stolen the election from those self-made Proletariat Men of the People, Albert Gore Jr. and John Kerry (who had to work his way up from humble beginnings on the Kennedy's yacht)!

Get over it, please![/quote]
Dude, that's the point! Bush has positioned himself as the "guy you'd like to have a beer with." That's nonsense. He's as elitist and spoiled as the latte-sipping, Volvo-driving, sushi-eating, body piercing-having folks derided by conservatives. His faux Texas accent - "nucular," anyone - and his "brush clearing" notwithstanding, Bush is a member of the moneyed class [i]par excellence[/i], and has enjoyed all the benefits appertaining to such a position. He hasn't done or achieved anything that wasn't bought and paid for by daddy.

[Socrates]

[quote name='kenrockthefirst' post='1555893' date='Jun 3 2008, 07:42 AM']Dude, that's the point! Bush has positioned himself as the "guy you'd like to have a beer with." That's nonsense. He's as elitist and spoiled as the latte-sipping, Volvo-driving, sushi-eating, body piercing-having folks derided by conservatives. His faux Texas accent - "nucular," anyone - and his "brush clearing" notwithstanding, Bush is a member of the moneyed class [i]par excellence[/i], and has enjoyed all the benefits appertaining to such a position. He hasn't done or achieved anything that wasn't bought and paid for by daddy.[/quote]
Um, yeah - politicians are a bunch of rich guys. Any other startling insights you wish to share with us?

And how Bush pronounces "nuclear" or whether he likes to clear brush are irrelevant to anything. And, personally, I'd rather have a beer with Bush than with Gore or Kerry (or Obama, for that matter), but that's neither here nor there.
And all politicians, Republican and Dem alike, play the "populist" game, so I'm not really sure what your point is.

[kujo]

[quote name='Socrates' post='1556719' date='Jun 3 2008, 10:52 PM']Um, yeah - politicians are a bunch of rich guys. Any other startling insights you wish to share with us?

And how Bush pronounces "nuclear" or whether he likes to clear brush are irrelevant to anything. And, personally, I'd rather have a beer with Bush than with Gore or Kerry (or Obama, for that matter), but that's neither here nor there.
And all politicians, Republican and Dem alike, play the "populist" game, so I'm not really sure what your point is.[/quote]

I think he is trying to say that Bush is the same as all other politicians, Democrat and Republican alike. Not exactly groundbreaking, but not something to be mocked for.

[Apotheoun]

Bush isn't running for office this year.