Nihil Obstat Posted June 25, 2008 Posted June 25, 2008 [quote name='Alycin' post='1582508' date='Jun 24 2008, 11:20 PM']Just so yall know, J has tried before to have faith, he even went through RCIA and was a practicing Catholic for a little while.[/quote] To quote myself... [quote]I don't know if you want to include yourself or not[/quote] I pay attention.
JustJ Posted June 25, 2008 Posted June 25, 2008 [quote name='Nihil Obstat' post='1582514' date='Jun 25 2008, 12:25 AM']To quote myself... I pay attention. [/quote] her pointing it out could be to the benefit of other who do not pay such close attention!
lilac_angel Posted June 25, 2008 Posted June 25, 2008 (edited) [quote name='Alycin' post='1582508' date='Jun 24 2008, 11:20 PM']Just so yall know, J has tried before to have faith, he even went through RCIA and was a practicing Catholic for a little while.[/quote] I was raised a cradle Catholic and went to Catholic grade school, high school, and part of Catholic college (til I transferred to Pitt) and for the most part had been lukewarm in faith at best most of that time, though I thought I was more faithful than I really was. It was only when my faith was really tested did I realize just how weak my faith was. Remember, God said that if we are lukewarm, he will spit us out of His mouth. If we read his message and choose to have faith, we have to live by His commands in their entirety to call ourselves true followers and hope to progress in faith. Otherwise it is quite easy to become discouraged - I still do, on a daily basis, to be honest - but they're largely emotional reasons and they're not reasons that are logical. But I'm noticing that as long as I perservere, I am still given no good reason to stop perservering. On the contrary. Sometimes I barely make it to the end of the day and continue to want to do His will. But again, it's not for logical reasons. I may be attached to a certain sinful thought or my anxiety will creep up, making something seem to be a problem when it really isn't a case against God by any means. Some days I feel almost ready to give up. And back when I was Catholic but often in a state of mortal sin, I did give up. I'd ignore God for a while. Then I started wondering if He was even there. It was only when I took my faith completely seriously and put God before [u]anything else[/u] in my life did I see more evidence and reasons to believe, and this strengthened not only my faith but my personhood. For example, I spent most of my life with social anxiety, and faith has given me some much needed confidence in myself, and I don't fear people as much anymore. Believe me, in today's world, it is difficult to have faith, and I know that. But it's certainly worth a try, because it's pretty easy to see that the world doesn't have a lot of great alternatives and never had. Edited June 25, 2008 by lilac_angel
lilac_angel Posted June 25, 2008 Posted June 25, 2008 [quote name='JustJ' post='1582519' date='Jun 24 2008, 11:30 PM']her pointing it out could be to the benefit of other who do not pay such close attention![/quote] I was aware that you tried to have faith before. Hence my previous post.
Nihil Obstat Posted June 25, 2008 Posted June 25, 2008 Losing faith seems to be a vicious circle, while having a strong faith is the opposite. It just takes that extra push, something that means something to you, to give you that chance to see faith.
lilac_angel Posted June 25, 2008 Posted June 25, 2008 (edited) [quote name='Nihil Obstat' post='1582540' date='Jun 24 2008, 11:40 PM']Losing faith seems to be a vicious circle, while having a strong faith is the opposite. It just takes that extra push, something that means something to you, to give you that chance to see faith.[/quote] Yes. When I had little or no faith, I was always trapped in vicious circles. Now that I'm actually beginning to progress in faith, I feel like my life is moving forward. I feel myself being freed from previous vicious circles that got me nowhere and were, in fact, destructive. Sin is becoming less and less appealing to me. Wordly things are becoming less and less appealing. I am more content and less tempted by things that used to tempt me, though not immune to the human conditions of discouragement. Something is keeping me going, and it's certainly not my own nature. Edited June 25, 2008 by lilac_angel
Alycin Posted June 25, 2008 Posted June 25, 2008 Uh oh. I see this leading to the "faith is a crutch" argument.
lilac_angel Posted June 25, 2008 Posted June 25, 2008 [quote name='Alycin' post='1582545' date='Jun 24 2008, 11:47 PM']Uh oh. I see this leading to the "faith is a crutch" argument.[/quote] Humans are imperfect and in need of faith. Call it what you will; we are nothing without God. It's not a simple convenient way of making things work out; that's just a side effect of having faith.
Nihil Obstat Posted June 25, 2008 Posted June 25, 2008 [quote name='Alycin' post='1582545' date='Jun 24 2008, 11:47 PM']Uh oh. I see this leading to the "faith is a crutch" argument.[/quote] People with broken bones need crutches. Bad analogy though, broken bones heal. Faith is your legs. Sometimes you break a leg. It takes help to get through that. If you exercise though, granted it can be hard, and painful, but your legs are stronger, and you're going to be a healthier person.
Alycin Posted June 25, 2008 Posted June 25, 2008 [quote name='lilac_angel' post='1582543' date='Jun 25 2008, 12:44 AM']Yes. When I had little or no faith, I was always trapped in vicious circles. Now that I'm actually beginning to progress in faith, I feel like my life is moving forward. I feel myself being freed from previous vicious circles that got me nowhere and were, in fact, destructive. Sin is becoming less and less appealing to me. Wordly things are becoming less and less appealing. I am more content and less tempted by things that used to tempt me, though not immune to the human conditions of discouragement. Something is keeping me going, and it's certainly not my own nature. [/quote] me too...
lilac_angel Posted June 25, 2008 Posted June 25, 2008 (edited) [quote name='Nihil Obstat' post='1582540' date='Jun 24 2008, 11:40 PM']Losing faith seems to be a vicious circle, while having a strong faith is the opposite. It just takes that extra push, something that means something to you, to give you that chance to see faith.[/quote] Sometimes it takes being humbled, too. Completely humbled by life. Sometimes it's only when all of our worldly crutches are stolen from under our arms do we realize how useless they really were to begin with. Even if we get those worldly crutches back, their glamor is lost when we have faith. Edited June 25, 2008 by lilac_angel
Alycin Posted June 25, 2008 Posted June 25, 2008 I wasn't saying that I agree with that argument, and actually I have a very good counter-argument, but I saw it going there...
lilac_angel Posted June 25, 2008 Posted June 25, 2008 [quote name='Alycin' post='1582549' date='Jun 24 2008, 11:49 PM'] me too... [/quote] Awesome...
Nihil Obstat Posted June 25, 2008 Posted June 25, 2008 [quote name='Alycin' post='1582553' date='Jun 24 2008, 11:54 PM']I wasn't saying that I agree with that argument, and actually I have a very good counter-argument, but I saw it going there...[/quote] What's your counter to it? I like mine.
lilac_angel Posted June 25, 2008 Posted June 25, 2008 [quote name='Nihil Obstat' post='1582467' date='Jun 24 2008, 10:54 PM']What it often comes down to is theists accepting evidence and atheists denying it. In the case of most of our validated miracles, we have scientific evidence to support that our claims have some merit (like real blood and flesh taking the physical place of the bread and wine) and you have flimsy, if any reason to refute this. (Spontaneous rearrangement of atomic structure, maybe? Other than that you just can't explain how that would happen.) The sun dancing in the sky... 70000 people saw this. 70000 eyewitnesses would swear before whatever you like that the water in the ground was dried by the sun, am I correct? Not to mention this happened exactly when it was predicted it would. You explain it as a massive optical illusion. Look at this purely objectively. While seems more legitimate?[/quote] Well said...
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