What Does The Church Really Say

[Lucy Lionheart]

what does the church really say about babies who die before they get bapitized

what about babies who died before they are suposed to be born so no one could bapitize them evn if they try

do they really not go to heaven

someone told me that they do not because its in baltmor catecism but someone told me that the church never said officallilly

[Deb]

This is what the catechism says:

Para. 1281: Those who die for the faith, those who are catechumens, and all those who, without knowing of the Church but acting under the inspiration of grace, seek God sincerely and strive to fulfill his will, can be saved even if they have not been baptized (cf. LG 16). Para. 1261: As regards [i]children who have died without Baptism[/i], the Church can only entrust them to the mercy of God, as she does in her funeral rites for them. Indeed, the great mercy of God who desires that all men should be saved, and Jesus' tenderness toward children which caused him to say: "Let the children come to me, do not hinder them" (Mk 10:14; cf. 1 Tim 2:4), allow us to hope that there is a way of salvation for children who have died without Baptism. All the more urgent is the Church's call not to prevent little children coming to Christ through the gift of holy Baptism.

You can access the entire catechism at [url="http://www.usccb.org/catechism/text/"]http://www.usccb.org/catechism/text/[/url] I love it cuz I can have my book and easy access online too!

[Deb]

This is what the catechism says:

Para. 1281: Those who die for the faith, those who are catechumens, and all those who, without knowing of the Church but acting under the inspiration of grace, seek God sincerely and strive to fulfill his will, can be saved even if they have not been baptized (cf. LG 16). Para. 1261: As regards [i]children who have died without Baptism[/i], the Church can only entrust them to the mercy of God, as she does in her funeral rites for them. Indeed, the great mercy of God who desires that all men should be saved, and Jesus' tenderness toward children which caused him to say: "Let the children come to me, do not hinder them" (Mk 10:14; cf. 1 Tim 2:4), allow us to hope that there is a way of salvation for children who have died without Baptism. All the more urgent is the Church's call not to prevent little children coming to Christ through the gift of holy Baptism.

You can access the entire catechism at [url="http://www.usccb.org/catechism/text/"]http://www.usccb.org/catechism/text/[/url] I love it cuz I can have my book and easy access online too!

[Lucy Lionheart]

that is confuzing what does it mean

[Deb]

It means we believe that God will accept babies into heaven that die before birth or die before baptism. It also means that those who are in classes to become baptized and confirmed or who fight for Christ, even though not baptized, will go to heaven. If of course they aren't super evil sinners.

[Lucy Lionheart]

but what about people who say that they dont go to heaven they are only happy

[rckllnknny]

[quote name='Deb' post='1582798' date='Jun 25 2008, 10:35 AM']It means we believe that God will accept babies into heaven that die before birth or die before baptism. It also means that those who are in classes to become baptized and confirmed or who fight for Christ, even though not baptized, will go to heaven. If of course they aren't super evil sinners.[/quote]


what is it called, i forgot. baptism by desire???

(seriously, i thought it was called something.)

[LouisvilleFan]

[quote name='Lucy Lionheart' post='1582805' date='Jun 25 2008, 11:37 AM']but what about people who say that they dont go to heaven they are only happy[/quote]

That's probably limbo they're talking about, which I think the Church officially abandoned a few years ago. It was only theory to explain how God could be both just and merciful to an unbaptized child. We can't say for sure that anyone goes to Heaven besides canonized saints. All we can do is pray for them and leave them to God's mercy, which gives us very good reason to believe they do go to Heaven.

[quote name='rckllnknny' post='1582812' date='Jun 25 2008, 11:44 AM']what is it called, i forgot. baptism by desire???

(seriously, i thought it was called something.)[/quote]

Yes, it's Baptism by Desire. Baptism by Blood is for unbaptized martyrs.

[Paddington]

[url="http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/index.php?showtopic=80284d"]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/index.php?showtopic=80284d[/url]

From this thread, there are different Catholic views that are permitted.

[Lucy Lionheart]

so its ok by the church to tell people that those babies don't really go to heaven

that seems mean

[Deb]

The Catholic Church does not say that babies who die prior to baptism do not go to heaven.

[Lucy Lionheart]

it dosn't say it but it lets people

[Deb]

[i]I guess one can only have faith in God that he will accept the babies. I have complete faith in that based on Word. It certainly isn't something to dwell on, you can only pray for the babies that are lost before birth or before baptism. [/i]

[StColette]

[quote name='Lucy Lionheart' post='1582837' date='Jun 25 2008, 11:17 AM']it dosn't say it but it lets people[/quote]

The Church doesn't have control over every mouth that speaks.

[Lucy Lionheart]

you mite not want to dwell on it but other people want to know

im guess the church lets some people be mean and say that babies who die befor baptisism are not in heaven

the church dosn't really say enything

so mean people can say what they want

and not be told they are wrong

[StColette]

[quote name='Lucy Lionheart' post='1582848' date='Jun 25 2008, 11:26 AM']you mite not want to dwell on it but other people want to know

im guess the church lets some people be mean and say that babies who die befor baptisism are not in heaven

the church dosn't really say enything

so mean people can say what they want

and not be told they are wrong[/quote]

The Church doesn't "let" people speak false things or be mean. People allow themselves to speak false things and to be mean. The Church is very clear on the sanctity of life and very clear on the standpoint of unbaptized children. Sadly many Catholics as well as other Christians are not very informed about their faith and what their faith truthfully teaches.

Again, the Church says a lot on this matter, but the Church can't be present at every single conversation that takes place on this planet. It is up to the person to be well informed of what the Church teaches before they start speaking false things.

[Deb]

Well, seeing as the CHURCH is made up of human beings, who are sinners and seeing as they do not place speech monitors on us to make sure we are all saying exactly the same thing, some people will say things that are not true. They are ignorant.
There are people who are not Catholic that will say terrible things about the Church. What a Catholic should be doing is finding out what the truth is and then letting people know that when it comes up. Just because someone says something mean or wrong, doesn't mean you have to let it affect you. Christ was persecuted and he said that his followers would also be persecuted. Comes with the faith.

[rckllnknny]

[quote name='Deb' post='1582836' date='Jun 25 2008, 11:15 AM']The Catholic Church does not say that babies who die prior to baptism do not go to heaven.[/quote]

[Lucy Lionheart]

they say it in the baltimore chaechism

[Deb]

We don't use the baltimore Catechism. Maybe you should read the New Catechism to see what is taught. Throw the baltimore away.