Moslems Vs Nuns & Monks

[Autumn Dusk]

People argue that moslem women, in dresses and head scarves shouldn't be accommodated in America today. I'm not talking about controversial things, I'm just saying talking about them peroid.

For instance in hospitals or kitchens.

People argue that the moslem garb is unsanitary.

However, nuns have worked in hospitals for hundreds of years in sometimes HUGE very noticeable habits. Friars and monks have baked bread, made wine, and cured meat in their clothes for centuries.

Of course moslems want to integrate into places like hair salons and factories where clergy wouldn't of worked, but, seriously are most people making too big of a deal out of this?

[homeschoolmom]

Could you please clarify for me an example of the kind of distrimination against Muslims not being accommodated? I guess I am not clear on the question. Thanks.

[Paddington]

I thought this was going to be like the 'Who Would Win?' thread.

[Autumn Dusk]

In genral, it comes up that moslem women need to change to our culture to work not only in places of fasion or fast moving mechanical parts, but also to be a nurse or a dr or to work in a kitchen or restraunt.

I'm just trying to get an idea of why people defend taking away moslems right to the latter (kitchen and medical work) when religious, in habits, have done it for years and it was always safe and sanitary then.

[Madame Vengier]

[quote name='Autumn Dusk' post='1591863' date='Jul 5 2008, 07:18 AM']People argue that moslem women, in dresses and head scarves shouldn't be accommodated in America today. I'm not talking about controversial things, I'm just saying talking about them peroid.

For instance in hospitals or kitchens.

People argue that the moslem garb is unsanitary.

However, nuns have worked in hospitals for hundreds of years in sometimes HUGE very noticeable habits. Friars and monks have baked bread, made wine, and cured meat in their clothes for centuries.

Of course moslems want to integrate into places like hair salons and factories where clergy wouldn't of worked, but, seriously are most people making too big of a deal out of this?[/quote]


Nuns and monks have ways of tying up their sleeves. I've seen it. Also, regardless of what was done in hospitals hundreds of years ago, the fact is today there are universal standards of precaution and bare, disinfected arms is one of them. I don't think there's a problem with the veil in hospitals. Actually, the veil is the most hygenic option because the head is completely covered.

[Madame Vengier]

[quote name='Autumn Dusk' post='1591871' date='Jul 5 2008, 07:50 AM']In genral, it comes up that moslem women need to change to our culture to work not only in places of fasion or fast moving mechanical parts, but also to be a nurse or a dr or to work in a kitchen or restraunt.

I'm just trying to get an idea of why people defend taking away moslems right to the latter (kitchen and medical work) when religious, in habits, have done it for years and it was always safe and sanitary then.[/quote]

*double post*

Edited July 5, 2008 by Madame Vengier

[Madame Vengier]

[quote name='Autumn Dusk' post='1591871' date='Jul 5 2008, 07:50 AM']In genral, it comes up that moslem women need to change to our culture to work not only in places of fasion or fast moving mechanical parts, but also to be a nurse or a dr or to work in a kitchen or restraunt.

I'm just trying to get an idea of why people defend taking away moslems right to the latter (kitchen and medical work) when religious, in habits, have done it for years and it was always safe and sanitary then.[/quote]


No one is taking away the rights of Muslims. Please do not make statements that are not factual just to over--dramatize your point. Muslims are free to wear whatever they like, wherever they like--and they do. I am sure if you could ask Muslims for their honest opinion they would tell you that they are grateful to live in a country where they have this freedom, instead of in a country that denies them the right to their religious garb. There are simply some situations in which Muslims (and others) are required to make compromises in certain areas of their dress. I believe the majority of Muslims make these compromises and are more than happy to do so. Then, there are those who want to make trouble, get attention and they pull the discrimation card out to do it. It is very likely that the ones making the most noise are immigrants who have not learned (or don't want to learn) what it means to adapt and assimilate.

Also, I want to point out that in regards to hospitals and other places, the Muslims complaining are almost all exclusively females. This is because many of them are not even allowed to work outside the home in their native countries, which adhere to strict Islamic law/culture. Therefore, the challenges they face when coming to the West have no point of reference in their countries of origin. They should do it our way or stay home.

[homeschoolmom]

[quote name='Madame Vengier' post='1591878' date='Jul 5 2008, 09:41 AM']Actually, the veil is the most hygenic option because the head is completely covered.[/quote]
Hospitals in Egypt are banning the niqab (the face scarf) in their staff.
[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vxGPaEZPY9o"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vxGPaEZPY9o[/url]

[Madame Vengier]

[quote name='homeschoolmom' post='1591883' date='Jul 5 2008, 08:52 AM']Hospitals in Egypt are banning the niqab (the face scarf) in their staff.
[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vxGPaEZPY9o"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vxGPaEZPY9o[/url][/quote]


Good for Egypt. They should ban it everywhere. It's ridiculous. And the nurse being interviewed in the You Tube piece is a wacko. She SHOULD stay home. Do everyone a favor.

And, it's very much worth noting the comment made at the end of the video, about the face veil being only "marginally" in use until now. This means Muslims are deliberately radicalizing their culture, society and surroundings. And they have no qualms about verbally and physically abusing total strangers on the street who do not adhere to their new-found radical ways. There are other You Tube videos that show women being physically and verbally assualted by both men and women in Muslim countries because they are not veiled, or because they are wearing pants, or skirts that show some of their legs, or because some or all of their arms are uncovered.

Edited July 5, 2008 by Madame Vengier

[Autumn Dusk]

[quote]Therefore, the challenges they face when coming to the West have no point of reference in their countries of origin. They should do it our way or stay home.[/quote]

This is the mind set I'm referencing.

There is no reason that we can allow nuns but not moslem women.

I don't see why we should even be ASKING them to adapt if we let nuns and monks dress nearly the same way in certain fields.

[Madame Vengier]

[quote name='Autumn Dusk' post='1591885' date='Jul 5 2008, 09:00 AM']This is the mind set I'm referencing.

There is no reason that we can allow nuns but not moslem women.

I don't see why we should even be ASKING them to adapt if we let nuns and monks dress nearly the same way in certain fields.[/quote]

I'm not going to play your game, Autumn Dusk. Go find someone else to play mind games with.

[homeschoolmom]

As was said before, nuns and monks roll or tied up their sleeves to allow them to be bare and washed which is standard medical practice. Some habits are short sleeved for just this reason:
[img]http://www.asnom.org/image/140_presentation/salle_hopital.jpg[/img]

[Madame Vengier]

[quote name='homeschoolmom' post='1591892' date='Jul 5 2008, 09:08 AM']As was said before, nuns and monks roll or tied up their sleeves to allow them to be bare and washed which is standard medical practice. Some habits are short sleeved for just this reason:
[img]http://www.asnom.org/image/140_presentation/salle_hopital.jpg[/img][/quote]

Exactly. I said it and he deliberately ignored it and repeated his accusation that Muslims are having their rights taken away. This is why I'm stopping dialogue with him right now.

This is what causes chaos at Phatmass. People like me get blamed because we get angry, while the people who are responsible for instigating these angry reactions in the first place are not called to accountability at all.

And then there are those who have the nerve to criticize others for using the ignore feature.

Beaver dam if you do, beaver dam if you don't.

Anyway, that was a great photo. Thanks for posting it!

[mortify]

I guess it depends on how you define Muslim garb. If you're talking about a Muslim woman with niqaab and gloves, then I can see the problem, but the average Muslimah has already learned to accommodate and for these I don't see a problem.

[Autumn Dusk]

I'm not playing a mind game. I'm just sick of the blanket statments and subtle hatred on phatmass when it comes to certain people. Moslem women could roll there sleeves just as well and still have headscarvs and appear moslem. Its not the issue. the idea that they need to FULLY integrate, wear scrubs or chef's uniforms or what be it, when monks and nuns can enjoy wearing their habits is not right.

[Madame Vengier]

[quote name='Autumn Dusk' post='1591900' date='Jul 5 2008, 09:20 AM']I'm not playing a mind game. I'm just sick of the blanket statments and subtle hatred on phatmass when it comes to certain people. Moslem women could roll there sleeves just as well and still have headscarvs and appear moslem. Its not the issue. the idea that they need to FULLY integrate, wear scrubs or chef's uniforms or what be it, when monks and nuns can enjoy wearing their habits is not right.[/quote]


*sigh*

Into my ignore cave you go.

[Autumn Dusk]

Blocking me isn't going to change your disregard for society. You mock celebs who are just human for making human mistakes and having human struggles. You blatantly cry out that people need to integrate and be just like everyone else.

atleast I won't have to see your icon around my posts then.

Edited July 5, 2008 by Autumn Dusk

[homeschoolmom]

[quote name='mortify' post='1591896' date='Jul 5 2008, 10:18 AM']I guess it depends on how you define Muslim garb. If you're talking about a Muslim woman with niqaab and gloves, then I can see the problem, but the average Muslimah has already learned to accommodate and for these I don't see a problem.[/quote]
What I find interesting is that there can't be a compromise-- couldn't a niqab-wearing nurse (or doctor) wear a surgical mask to cover her face (and have something else, like a sort of turtleneck) covering her neck?

[quote name='Autumn Dusk' post='1591900' date='Jul 5 2008, 10:20 AM']I'm not playing a mind game. I'm just sick of the blanket statments and subtle hatred on phatmass when it comes to certain people. Moslem women could roll there sleeves just as well and still have headscarvs and appear moslem. Its not the issue. the idea that they need to FULLY integrate, wear scrubs or chef's uniforms or what be it, when monks and nuns can enjoy wearing their habits is not right.[/quote]
Could you please site an example of where a Muslim medical professional was not allowed a reasonable compromise? In most hospitals (as I understand it) scrubs are issued and cleaned by the hospital-- it is the standard uniform. Honestly, I don't know that a lot of habited nuns work in hospitals in the US anymore.

[Madame Vengier]

[quote name='homeschoolmom' post='1591914' date='Jul 5 2008, 09:33 AM']What I find interesting is that there can't be a compromise-- couldn't a niqab-wearing nurse (or doctor) wear a surgical mask to cover her face (and have something else, like a sort of turtleneck) covering her neck?
Could you please site an example of where a Muslim medical professional was not allowed a reasonable compromise? In most hospitals (as I understand it) scrubs are issued and cleaned by the hospital-- it is the standard uniform. Honestly, I don't know that a lot of habited nuns work in hospitals in the US anymore.[/quote]


Exactly.

I will say one thing: When was the last time you (or someone you know) went into a restaurant and the chef was dressed in a religious habit? Or when was the last time you (or someone you know) went to the hospital and there were medical staff dressed in habits at all...let alone FULL habits with large sleeves?

This is why I don't want the stress of dealing with stupid questions that seem geared towards instigating an argument.

[Autumn Dusk]

I was just watching the other debate and I was floored on how some people think the moslem women should just don a tee and jeans like everyone else or be locked in their houses.