Some Coffee Fans Delighted By Starbucks Woes

[cappie]

One coffee drinker's bad news is another coffee drinker's good news, it seems.

Financial woes at Starbucks Corp, which is planning to close 600 underperforming US stores, is evoking glee and little sympathy from aficionados who say they resent the coffee shop giant and favour small independent cafes.

"I'm so happy. I'm so not a Starbucks person," said Melinda Vigliotti, sipping iced coffee at the Irving Farm Coffee House in New York. "I believe in supporting small businesses. Starbucks, bye-bye."

"Amen," chimed in Keith DiLauro, a local caterer. "They went too big, too fast."

Seattle-based Starbucks burst onto the national scene in the
1990s and grew to more than 6,000 locations around the world. But with cups of coffee that can cost several dollars, it faces a slowing economy and slowed consumer spending.

"Starbucks has really created a coffee culture, raising awareness of good coffee, which is good for independents," said Carol Watson, owner of the Milk and Honey coffee shop in Chicago. "But on the other hand, they're on practically every corner, and that makes it tough on the little guy too."

In Birmingham, Alabama, retiree Peggy Bonfield, drinking coffee at the Crestwood Coffee Shop, said: "When a Starbucks closes, it makes room for a local business to start.

"I consider that good news," she said.

The schadenfreude of coffee drinkers drawing satisfaction from another's misfortune is part of the popular culture that enjoys the downfall of companies or celebrities, said Jim Carroll, a Canadian-based trends and innovation expert.

"There are a lot of people out there who take delight in seeing an icon torn down by the masses," he said.

Starbucks fell victim to a rapid change in attitude, fuelled by internet bloggers complaining endlessly about everything from layoffs to its breakfast sandwiches, he said.

"Starbucks was a cool brand, and then all of a sudden it's not a cool brand," he said. "There's this new global consciousness that is out there that can suddenly shift."

Indeed, said Pye Parson, who hails from Seattle and works at Birmingham's Crestwood, "Once it went corporate, it wasn't Starbucks anymore."

New York web designer Zachary Thacher, who favours Greenwich Village's cafes, said he avoids Starbucks. "They've commoditised cafe culture, which is why I don't go," he said.

The environmental movement toward buying and appreciating locally grown products has helped neighbourhood cafes and hurt the myriad look-a-like Starbucks stores, said Judy Ramberg, a consumer strategist at Iconoculture, a Minneapolis-based trend research company.

The company that began as innovative is now known for consistency and convenience, she said. "To me, that's a huge step down," she said. "You've built your franchise on people who are coming in because they know exactly what they want."

Precisely, said Justin Sergi, explaining why he preferred Lux, a cafe in Phoenix serving lattes with a fern-like pattern teased from steamed milk in ceramic cups, over Starbucks.

"The people that work there are very pleasant, but the stores are devoid of any kind of real charm or personality," he said. "They push a button, and a machine does everything from grinding the beans to brewing the drink."

It's not as though Starbucks doesn't have defenders.

"It's convenient," said Anthony Castro, sitting in a Starbucks near his job at New York's Museum of Modern Art. "I know what to expect."

In Birmingham, Crestwood regular Gary Adkins said he felt Starbucks gave employees good salaries and benefits. But now Starbucks' plans call for cutting up to 12,000 full and part-time positions.

Not everyone felt strongly. "It's just coffee," said Marc Poulin, a systems administrator at Zibetto Espresso Bar in New York. "If I was an investor, I'd care."

[socalscout]

It's a shame that people feel that way. People don’t realize that Starbucks was modeled after the Italian Espresso Bars and not your corner coffee house. I was a manager of a Starbucks and never have I worked for a company that believed what it said and held itself to those principles on a daily basis and expected its employees to do the same. Of course some of those principles may be contrary to our morality but it is still a company that thrives on its partners and puts customers ahead of anything else.

I have never worked for a company that worked so hard to create a fair market for coffee with its C.A.F.E. practices and it’s Fair Trade Cafe Estima. Every Starbucks coffee will now carry a stamp that indicates its grown environmental conscious ways such as Shade Grown and Organic. Shade Grown is grown amongst the native trees and no deforestation occurs. Organic insures not pesticides or other harmful agents. Starbucks' works to insure healthy water to third world countries through its Ethos water program.

As a manager I was required to produce a calendar of charitable community events my store was participating in or will host. I gave pastries every week to St. Thomas Moore Catholic Church for hospice. We sent weekly care packages to the troops as well as Christmas card events to make cards and send them to Iraq. We participated in Reading for the Blind and my partners are all well known by all the children at Austin Miracle league because of the volunteer work that Starbucks does for them. We did Habitat for Humanity, Caritas food drives, Blood mobile etc. Starbucks requires this from its managers and asks this of its partners.

Part time Partners are given full benefits if they work 20 hours or more which is unheard of in any industry. When fellow employees needed a hand we always chipped in and in fact Starbucks has a voluntary “Cup Fund” we contribute to in case partners fall on rough times and need financial help. We were a tight knit family that took it personal whenever a customer yelled because their latte was not perfect and we truly cared about giving that customer that latte. And now 12000 of those wonderful people are going to be out of a job.

I’d like to see your mom and pop small business coffee house do all that.

[corban711]

i could never delight in the closing of 600 locations and lay off of over 12,000 employees. times are tough right now and while the pay isn't great at starbucks...it does do a lot of things right. (im not blind to its problems...just saying) they have been and are very successful because they have built an incredible business. i personally don't like that there are 10 locations or so within 5 miles of my house, although it is convenient. there was a time a few years ago where i did think that starbucks had outgrown its personal atmosphere. however, i have noticed in the last year or so especially, that there seems to be a real effort to return to its roots and my experience has been very positive overall.

[TotusTuusMaria]

[quote]I have never worked for a company that worked so hard to create a fair market for coffee with its C.A.F.E. practices and it’s Fair Trade Cafe Estima. Every Starbucks coffee will now carry a stamp that indicates its grown environmental conscious ways such as Shade Grown and Organic. Shade Grown is grown amongst the native trees and no deforestation occurs. Organic insures not pesticides or other harmful agents. Starbucks' works to insure healthy water to third world countries through its Ethos water program.

As a manager I was required to produce a calendar of charitable community events my store was participating in or will host. I gave pastries every week to St. Thomas Moore Catholic Church for hospice. We sent weekly care packages to the troops as well as Christmas card events to make cards and send them to Iraq. We participated in Reading for the Blind and my partners are all well known by all the children at Austin Miracle league because of the volunteer work that Starbucks does for them. We did Habitat for Humanity, Caritas food drives, Blood mobile etc. Starbucks requires this from its managers and asks this of its partners.[/quote]

That is great to hear that in your experience at Starbucks you were able to volunteer and help and bring happiness into the lives of the less fortunate.

It certainly is news to me that their employees do take part in activities like the ones mentioned above.

However, Starbucks still gives money to Planned Parenthood. It is sad not only because they are helping fund a baby killing operation, but because I loved their hot chocolate and some vanilla drink they had too. I am sad to hear that people will be losing jobs that are needed at this time, but I am a little happy that the corporation isn't doing too well as a whole, as they are - in their own little special way - taking part in abortion by funding and using my money (which I no longer give them because of that) to do it. The less successful they are the less they can give to the funding of abortions. I hope they change on this and stop giving money to Planned Parenthood... then maybe I'd buy their stuff.

Prayers for all of those that lost a job.

Edited July 9, 2008 by TotusTuusMaria

[DemonSlayer]

We've never even had a Starbucks in my state.

[homeschoolmom]

What Starbucks failed to realize is that not every living person on the planet wants to pay $4 for a cup of coffee.

[socalscout]

[quote name='TotusTuusMaria' post='1595834' date='Jul 9 2008, 03:03 AM']That is great to hear that in your experience at Starbucks you were able to volunteer and help and bring happiness into the lives of the less fortunate.

It certainly is news to me that their employees do take part in activities like the ones mentioned above.

However, Starbucks still gives money to Planned Parenthood. It is sad not only because they are helping fund a baby killing operation, but because I loved their hot chocolate and some vanilla drink they had too. I am sad to hear that people will be losing jobs that are needed at this time, but I am a little happy that the corporation isn't doing too well as a whole, as they are - in their own little special way - taking part in abortion by funding and using my money (which I no longer give them because of that) to do it. The less successful they are the less they can give to the funding of abortions. I hope they change on this and stop giving money to Planned Parenthood... then maybe I'd buy their stuff.

Prayers for all of those that lost a job. [/quote]


Planned Parenthood was never in any Starbucks charitable agendas or calendars. It was never mentioned anywhere in the company that it is supported. In fact Starbucks has what they call 4 pillars or categories of allowable charitable contributions and they are Education, Environment, Aids and Arts which Planned Parenthood fits in none. Now Starbucks does support many Gay rights platforms and events which is what I was referring to in terms of morality. An individual store might have supported it but on a whole it is too controversial a subject for a business to support and still maintain such a customer base. I am not saying you are wrong but they are pretty straight forward with their partners and they lay out the whole plan in terms of their efforts. There might be a mistake.

Edited July 9, 2008 by socalscout

[picchick]

From what I have read, the Starbucks STORES where you get your drinks do not support PP. It is the coffee that you buy from the grocery store that does...I am sorta confused by this but this is what I heard. I have not researched it fully yet.

[LouisvilleFan]

[quote name='corban711' post='1595779' date='Jul 9 2008, 03:28 AM']i could never delight in the closing of 600 locations and lay off of over 12,000 employees. times are tough right now and while the pay isn't great at starbucks.[/quote]

Actually, the pay is great at Starbucks. It's one of the best jobs a part-timer can have. You get a competitive hourly wage, plus tips, and the benefits of a full-time position, including health insurance. Few mom-and-pop coffee shops can afford to offer benefits, so most of these people will be in a bind if they don't have a spouse to cover them.

[quote name='homeschoolmom' post='1595855' date='Jul 9 2008, 09:22 AM']What Starbucks failed to realize is that not every living person on the planet wants to pay $4 for a cup of coffee.[/quote]

A cup of coffee is only $1.20-$2.00, depending on size. If you want to pay $4, you can either tip the barista handsomely for pouring coffee (I'm sure they won't mind) or buy a latte, cappuccino, etc.

[JoeyP]

[quote name='homeschoolmom' post='1595855' date='Jul 9 2008, 09:22 AM']What Starbucks failed to realize is that not every living person on the planet wants to pay $4 for a cup of coffee.[/quote]

I agree. Their prices are ridiculous on everything they sell.

[CatherineM]

I hope they aren't closing the Starbucks next door in my Safeway store. I don't drink coffee, but the primate I'm married to does.

[Daniel9]

Yesterday, I was in a normally bustling Starbucks by my office. There were [i]three[/i] people in there! It was great for me, but not for Starbucks!

[DemonSlayer]

$4 doesn't seem expensive for a cup of coffee, most coffee places down here sell their coffees for around that price, unless if you're buying from somewhere like McDonalds or apetrol station.

[DemonSlayer]

$4 doesn't seem expensive for a cup of coffee, most coffee places down here sell their coffees for around that price, unless if you're buying from somewhere like McDonalds or apetrol station.

[Winchester]

La Madeliene is 2.15, and if you're drinking it there, it's free refills.

[goldenchild17]

I don't care for starbucks as a company, I don't really like any big companies that much. But it can't be good for the employees.

[Ash Wednesday]

My local mom and pop small business coffee house made better coffee and pastries. End of story. I don't need to go through a coffee business to support charitable causes (though many local businesses DO support charities.)

I grew up in the northwest, and when Starbucks was just a regional company, their products were really special. It was higher quality back then. Prior to the 90s explosion my aunt used to give us Starbucks items for Christmas. It was that special to us then. I did not like their products as much once they went international. They basically became a polished up version of McDonald's. Now, not all big businesses are evil. But it seems to me that when a business gets too large, mass produced products diminish in quality, particularly when it comes to food production.

So Starbucks has to scale down. Tough luck. Maybe the company will improve as a result of it. It's called competition and free enterprise. People may lose jobs when a franchise like Starbucks takes a blow, but at the same time, when franchises flourish, the local guy loses not just a job, but his entire business. So Starbucks and their supporters should not villianize small businesses here, because they were once one themselves. Small businesses are in many respects the backbone of the American economic infastructure. If they make a better product (and as a bonus, DON'T support morally objectionable causes), then consumers have every right to purchase it.

Edited July 10, 2008 by Ash Wednesday

[homeschoolmom]

I guess the part of my statement that I should have stressed was not the "$4 a cup," but rather the "everyone on the planet." It's a common mistake companies make-- too much growth, too quickly.

[Barbarus]

There are a few Starbucks around where I live that are closing, but they have as competition a medium-sized chain (where people go even though the coffee is worse than Starbucks). I prefer smaller independent coffee stores; prices are cheaper and the coffee is better. I most prefer, however, to just make good coffee at home. I recently got a ridiculously expensive coffee maker that I am ridiculously happy with, so I've not had to go to any stores for coffee recently because I've had better coffee at home. Mmm.

[socalscout]

I'm a coffee snob and I have never had better coffee than Starbucks. By the way A French Press is the best cup of coffee. Go into any Starbucks and request one. In fact go into any Starbucks and tell them you want to taste a French Press of a certain coffee, Italian Roast is my fav, and they will open a bag and prepare a press right there and taste it with you and the rest of the partners and customers. It was so cool to do that for people. I really enjoyed that part of the job.


I told people that I worked there to save money. It’s all relative and a matter of taste but it is so impressive to see the process Starbucks goes through to insure a perfect cup of coffee. It is staggering. The efforts they go through to insure that ethical practices are followed in these third world countries are also very impressive. Clinics, Schools etc have been built in these communities to improve quality of life for all these small independent coffee growers. Some are so small, like in Ethiopia that they grow the coffee in their backyards. Of course they must follow strict standards but once a grower can meet those standards then their income and quality of life goes up.

You don't have to go to a coffee house to give to charities but it is nice to go to one that actually really cares about people even as large a company as Starbucks. Those who hate large companies I equate to those who hate when their favorite band gets big. The music has not changed but now that everyone likes them, no one does.

You have to understand that Starbucks is a large business that owns a bunch of small businesses, the Starbucks store. The only difference is standardization. Every Starbucks store contributes something unique for the community that no other store does. The one by my house, which is not the one I managed, has local bands playing every Friday night and also holds family nights with face painting and other things. Dominic the manager is a friend of mine but he is also a friend of the local community giving to the schools and local events. My store was heavily involved in the High school behind us.

The whole California manager with tips crisis was Starbucks sticking to its guns to give all hourly employees tips. There are four levels of hierarchy in a store; The Barista, the Shift Supervisor, the Assistant Manager and the Manager. The Barista and Shift Supervisor are hourly employees whose sole job is to stay on the floor and service customers. The Shift has a few other duties but generally work side by side with Baristas. Starbucks feels that the Shifts should get tips as well because of this work. California feels they should not by reason of their title. Tips can equal between $2 and $3 dollars an hour extra for employees. Managers and Assistant manager do not get tips and there are Starbucks policies restricting them from handling tips.

It’s a good company just not a great job at 50+ hours a week getting up at 4am and sometimes getting off at midnight, for the manager that is.

Edited July 10, 2008 by socalscout