Hassan Posted July 13, 2008 Share Posted July 13, 2008 I hear this claim nmerous times. What exactly does that mean? What legal support is there for this notion? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goldenchild17 Posted July 13, 2008 Share Posted July 13, 2008 A lot of the official documents (Declaration of Independence etc.) all have pretty strong Christian references in them and I think many or at least most of the founders can be argued to have held Christian beliefs. But I personally believe the Christian faith that they held was not exactly such and probably more Deist and/or masonic than anything. But I think it can be argued both ways (and probably will be.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kujo Posted July 14, 2008 Share Posted July 14, 2008 I don't think that the presence of Christian principles in the foundation of this country necessarily means we are a "Christian nation." But, still, for those who would argue that we are, I would certainly need to hear how they define "Christian nation." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Socrates Posted July 14, 2008 Share Posted July 14, 2008 A Christian nation means we are a nation founded primarily by Christians, and on Christian principles. America is not a "Christian Nation" in the sense of having an official national Church, but is most certainly a product of Christian civilization. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kujo Posted July 14, 2008 Share Posted July 14, 2008 [quote name='Socrates' post='1599459' date='Jul 13 2008, 09:57 PM']A Christian nation means we are a nation founded primarily by Christians, and on Christian principles. America is not a "Christian Nation" in the sense of having an official national Church, but is most certainly a product of Christian civilization.[/quote] If that's the definition, I would have to agree. My apprehension would be that referring to the U.S. as a "Christian nation" would lead to some feeling that we should enshrine our principles and beliefs into laws that would limit the immoral behavior of non-Christian citizens. I don't think anything in Christian theology that would allow for "banning" sin, but some people disagree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Socrates Posted July 14, 2008 Share Posted July 14, 2008 [quote name='kujo' post='1599518' date='Jul 13 2008, 09:07 PM']If that's the definition, I would have to agree. My apprehension would be that referring to the U.S. as a "Christian nation" would lead to some feeling that we should enshrine our principles and beliefs into laws that would limit the immoral behavior of non-Christian citizens. I don't think anything in Christian theology that would allow for "banning" sin, but some people disagree.[/quote] All just laws limit immoral behavior, but we've been over this before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dominicansoul Posted July 14, 2008 Share Posted July 14, 2008 I think America started out with all the fundamentals of being a Christian nation, but never set forth to be formed on these fundamentals. Slavery was not Christian. Racism and bigotry was not Christian. Abortion is definitely not Christian. I don't believe much of "life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness..." as it is proposed in the Constitution, has ever really been given a chance... Have we ever really met the ideals of the Constitution 100%?? [quote]My apprehension would be that referring to the U.S. as a "Christian nation" would lead to some feeling that we should enshrine our principles and beliefs into laws that would limit the immoral behavior of non-Christian citizens.[/quote] It's too bad, though that when Christians do speak out against laws such as Abortion, we get told, "You can't legislate morality." Yet, why can our law-makers legislate immorality??? I definitely agree, we are NOT a Christian nation! We are just a nation with Christians in it..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kujo Posted July 14, 2008 Share Posted July 14, 2008 [quote name='Socrates' post='1599527' date='Jul 13 2008, 11:17 PM']All just laws limit immoral behavior, but we've been over this before.[/quote] I've set up a beach chair and a cooler filled with Coronas at this impasse. Want a cold one? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dominicansoul Posted July 14, 2008 Share Posted July 14, 2008 ...better save me a bucket of Coronitas! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kujo Posted July 14, 2008 Share Posted July 14, 2008 [quote name='dominicansoul' post='1599551' date='Jul 13 2008, 11:46 PM']...better save me a bucket of Coronitas! [/quote] I'm on it! Are Dominicans a big Corona order? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hassan Posted July 14, 2008 Author Share Posted July 14, 2008 [quote name='Socrates' post='1599459' date='Jul 13 2008, 07:57 PM']A Christian nation means we are a nation founded primarily by Christians, and on Christian principles. America is not a "Christian Nation" in the sense of having an official national Church, but is most certainly a product of Christian civilization.[/quote] Then we are really an Anglo-Protestant nation of a Calvinist bent aren’t we? We certainly we not, by and large, founded by Mormon, Roman and Eastern Rite Catholic, Orthodox Catholics, Armenian Orthodox etc. Christians. What specific, uniquely Christian principals were we founded upon? Based on Mr. Jefferson's near verbatim plagiarism on Mr. Locke and the structure of our government I'd say we are much more a Lockeian, Montesquieuian, Rousseauian nation founded on the enlightenment ideals of Western Europe at the beginning of it's post-Christian/secular age Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galloglasses Posted July 14, 2008 Share Posted July 14, 2008 (edited) Well for starters, the seperation of Church and State is as far as I know, one of the ultra popular political ideas these days can be found in the Bible. "Give to Ceaser what is Ceaser's and to God what is God's" Edited July 14, 2008 by Galloglasses Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hassan Posted July 14, 2008 Author Share Posted July 14, 2008 (edited) [quote name='Galloglasses' post='1600003' date='Jul 14 2008, 02:47 PM']Well for starters, the seperation of Church and State is as far as I know, one of the ultra popular political ideas these days can be found in the Bible. "Give to Ceaser what is Ceaser's and to God what is God's"[/quote] That can be interpreted as a mean for Christians justifying the modern secular state they now find themselves in. It does not seem that the Roman Catholic Church interpreted that verse to dictate the establishment of secular states until fairly recently. If I recall correctly the Syllabus of Errors lists the separate of Church and state as a grave modern error. Of course many on the Christian right reject that as a fiction of the Warren court I believe. Edited July 14, 2008 by Hassan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galloglasses Posted July 14, 2008 Share Posted July 14, 2008 Dude, its more then likely that it was that passage that prevented the Bad Popes, (Antipopes, there's been a few) from simply overrunning the Medieval Kingdoms at their most powerful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hassan Posted July 14, 2008 Author Share Posted July 14, 2008 [quote name='Galloglasses' post='1600014' date='Jul 14 2008, 03:03 PM']Dude, its more then likely that it was that passage that prevented the Bad Popes, (Antipopes, there's been a few) from simply overrunning the Medieval Kingdoms at their most powerful.[/quote] I don't know of the slightest evidence for that. I do know the concept is condemned in the Syllabus of Errors (as is religious freedom I believe) which was published in the late 19th/early 20th century. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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