America A Christian Nation?

[Socrates]

[quote name='Hassan' post='1599990' date='Jul 14 2008, 02:26 PM']Then we are really an Anglo-Protestant nation of a Calvinist bent aren’t we?

We certainly we not, by and large, founded by Mormon, Roman and Eastern Rite Catholic, Orthodox Catholics, Armenian Orthodox etc. Christians.

What specific, uniquely Christian principals were we founded upon?

Based on Mr. Jefferson's near verbatim plagiarism on Mr. Locke and the structure of our government I'd say we are much more a Lockeian, Montesquieuian, Rousseauian nation founded on the enlightenment ideals of Western Europe at the beginning of it's post-Christian/secular age[/quote]
Jefferson was far from the only founding father, and the founders varied in their religious views and political philosophies. The vast majority of the founding fathers were Christians of some sort, mostly protestant, though a few (notably Charles Carroll) were Catholic.
The "Father of the Constitution," James Madison, was a devout Christian, and not a Rousseauian.

Since time is short, [url="http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/index.php?s=&showtopic=78976&view=findpost&p=1501456"]here's a thread in which I dealt with this issue[/url].

For starters, the idea that men were endowed by the Creator with the right to life liberty, and the pursuit of happiness comes from Christian thought. It was not an idea found in non-Christian societies of the time.
America is an outgrowth of Christian western civilization, and most of the original Americans were of the Christian religion.

[Hassan]

[quote name='Socrates' post='1600170' date='Jul 14 2008, 10:01 PM']Jefferson was far from the only founding father[/quote]

True, however he did write the central thesis of the Declaration of independence, that men are entitled to "Life, Liberty, and pursuit of Happiness" which is not, of course, a rip off of the Bible, but of John Locke.


[quote]and the founders varied in their religious views and political philosophies. The vast majority of the founding fathers were Christians of some sort, mostly protestant, though a few (notably Charles Carroll) were Catholic.
The "Father of the Constitution," James Madison, was a devout Christian, and not a Rousseauian.[/quote]

That does not mean that the constitution and government was founded upon Christian principles. By that logic "The Critique of Pure Reason" must be founded on Christian Principles as Immanuel Kant was a Christian.

[quote]Since time is short, [url="http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/index.php?s=&showtopic=78976&view=findpost&p=1501456"]here's a thread in which I dealt with this issue[/url].[/quote]


The only quote that is even relevant was by Mr. Adams:

“The general principles upon which the Fathers achieved independence were the general principals of Christianity… I will avow that I believed and now believe that those general principles of Christianity are as eternal and immutable as the existence and attributes of God.”

His quote certainly is in line with your claim, of course he, like you, never specifically says [i]what[/i] these uniquely Christian principals are. I, on the other hand, can point to very specific instances where the constitution was founded upon Enlightenment ideals.

[quote]For starters, the idea that men were endowed by the Creator with the right to life liberty, and the pursuit of happiness comes from Christian thought.[/quote]

It comes from John Locke who was a Christian. However unless you are not going to claim that indirect realism and primary/secondary qualities are also founded upon Christian principals your argument just doesn’t follow.



[quote]It was not an idea found in non-Christian societies of the time.[/quote]

Really? Wasn’t found in a single Eastern or Native American society at the time? Where these principals never present in any society in history except in Christian society?

Additionally, simply because it emerged from a Christian society doesn’t make it a Christian principal. I can't think of any Biblical dictation that Christians were to structure their governments on the principal that men could pursue "life Liberty, and Pursuit of Happiness". Certainly these principals were not present in Christendom.

[quote]America is an outgrowth of Christian western civilization[/quote]

America was established by people hailing from traditionally Christian societies at a time when the power of the established Churches was beginning to seriously wane.

[quote]and most of the original Americans were of the Christian religion.[/quote]

of segments of the Christian religion yes.

[Galloglasses]

[quote name='Hassan' post='1600205' date='Jul 15 2008, 12:14 AM']of segments of the Christian religion yes.[/quote]
Then they were Christian none the less.

[goldenchild17]

[quote name='kujo' post='1599454' date='Jul 13 2008, 07:38 PM']I don't think that the presence of Christian principles in the foundation of this country necessarily means we are a "Christian nation." But, still, for those who would argue that we are, I would certainly need to hear how they define "Christian nation."[/quote]

definitely agree. I was just throwing out some different arguments and ideas. I think we are probably less Christian (from a moralistic point of view) than we were during our early years. But I think the Masonic principles might have been more obvious back then.

[goldenchild17]

[quote name='kujo' post='1599518' date='Jul 13 2008, 09:07 PM']If that's the definition, I would have to agree. My apprehension would be that referring to the U.S. as a "Christian nation" would lead to some feeling that we should enshrine our principles and beliefs into laws that would limit the immoral behavior of non-Christian citizens. I don't think anything in Christian theology that would allow for "banning" sin, but some people disagree.[/quote]

you're right. Some people do . At least on a public level. In the privacy of their homes, do whatever you want.

[goldenchild17]

[quote name='Hassan' post='1599990' date='Jul 14 2008, 02:26 PM']Then we are really an Anglo-Protestant nation of a Calvinist bent aren’t we?

We certainly we not, by and large, founded by Mormon, Roman and Eastern Rite Catholic, Orthodox Catholics, Armenian Orthodox etc. Christians.

What specific, uniquely Christian principals were we founded upon?

Based on Mr. Jefferson's near verbatim plagiarism on Mr. Locke and the structure of our government I'd say we are much more a Lockeian, Montesquieuian, Rousseauian nation founded on the enlightenment ideals of Western Europe at the beginning of it's post-Christian/secular age[/quote]

word

[goldenchild17]

[quote name='Hassan' post='1600019' date='Jul 14 2008, 03:19 PM']I don't know of the slightest evidence for that.

I do know the concept is condemned in the Syllabus of Errors (as is religious freedom I believe) which was published in the late 19th/early 20th century.[/quote]

oh no you didn't (if there was a head gyrating smiley I'd be using it right about now). haha, I agree.