Catholic Faith Vs Citizenship...

[kenrockthefirst]

[quote name='Hassan' post='1599991' date='Jul 14 2008, 02:31 PM']...and insert the clause that slaves were 3/5ths of a person?[/quote]
[hijack]Actually, the "3/5 clause" was a good thing. As you may know, the number of members of the House of Representatives in the US Congress is determined based on each state's population. In order to limit the number of Representatives allocated to the Slave States, which wanted slaves to be counted in order to determine population but which of course didn't allow slaves to vote, the 3/5 clause was used to reduce the population count of and hence number of Representatives allocated to the Slave States.[/hijack]

Catholic first.

[Norseman82]

[quote name='havok579257' post='1600746' date='Jul 15 2008, 09:53 PM']Do you know why the Civil War even happened in the first place? Its was NOT due to slavery. The south wanted to succed from the USA and become their own country. The north did not want the USA to be seperated so they went to war. Yes, by the north winning slavery was ended, but that was never the intention of the civil war. So how can a war with selfish intentions ever be considered right?[/quote]

Blood was not shed until the South attacked the North (Ft. Sumter), so it was a defensive war for the North.

[Norseman82]

[quote name='Hassan' post='1599995' date='Jul 14 2008, 03:36 PM']It was illegal for the clergy to wear their vestments in public until relatively recently wasn’t it?[/quote]

Correct. My HS history teacher recounts how he could not wear his collar in public in Mexico in the 1970s!

[havok579257]

[quote name='Norseman82' post='1601037' date='Jul 16 2008, 11:06 AM']Blood was not shed until the South attacked the North (Ft. Sumter), so it was a defensive war for the North.[/quote]


Please tell me you don't believe that? Go research the Civil War and talk to many historians. The war was not a defensive war, it was not a war to end slavery, it was not altrustic means. The war's inentions were wrong.

[Norseman82]

[quote name='havok579257' post='1601129' date='Jul 16 2008, 01:21 PM']Please tell me you don't believe that? Go research the Civil War and talk to many historians. The war was not a defensive war, it was not a war to end slavery, it was not altrustic means. The war's inentions were wrong.[/quote]

The first shot of the Civil War is generally considered to be the South's attack on Fort Sumter, so ipso facto (as Archie Bunker would say) the South was the aggressor, not the North.

[ardillacid]

Fort Sumpter was in South Carolina, a sovereign nation.

[Galloglasses]

Last time I checked, wasn't South Carolina a dependent on the Union at this state in time? Not part of the Union but on very friendly terms with it.

[Norseman82]

[quote name='notardillacid' post='1601151' date='Jul 16 2008, 01:46 PM']Fort Sumpter was in South Carolina, a sovereign nation.[/quote]

I'm no legal eagle, but I thought federal military installations were federal property, not state. If a person is caught speeding on a fedaral military base, it is considered a federal matter, not a state/local matter. Simililarly, for overseas military bases, those are considered US jurisdiction (kind of like embassies), correct?

Perhaps some of the lawyers or overseas military personnel (like Justin86) can comment on this.

[Deb]

[quote name='picchick' post='1600844' date='Jul 15 2008, 11:41 PM']You know...in thinking about this more and more I realized that I maybe didn't make it clear enough.

God is first...always. My thought about country is this: my country was made by God. So if I cannot deny God how can I deny the thing He created?

However, if I gun were put to my head and someone said, "Pick....now." I'd choose God of course.

Sorry for all the confusion or scandal I may have caused.

Meg[/quote]

no confusion or scandal my dear. But, I have to say that I am not sure I can go along with the statement that our country was made by God. If you mean the physical earth, I agree. Anything else, was by the will of man. None of it was divinely inspired. Were there men of God throughout history who did good things for the development of country? Definitely. Were there just as many who did things throughout our history for the enrichment of themselves, working beside Satan. Oh yeah.

The difference is how can you deny a country? If our government decided tomorrow to round up and execute every christian, would you deny your country? Of course. More, you would be denying your government, which is not your country. I love the earth, therefore I love all countries. Do you not think that all patriots of all nations believe God is with them? If they are a God fearing nation I guess.

What part of country do you feel was created by God and therefore could not be denied? Our parks, our nature, our representatives, our laws etc?

By the way, I never say the pledge of allegiance anymore. The concept of pledging my allegiance to a FLAG makes no sense to me at all. I could see pledging my allegiance to my Country or my God but, to a flag? What is that all about?

(yeah, I know, prepare to be attacked.)