Total Consecration

[johnnydigit]

[quote name='HisChildForever' post='1615574' date='Aug 1 2008, 09:49 PM']I know that you're referring to Revelation 13, but that argument really doesn't work with me. That chapter references Israel (as the woman); suggesting that Mary is the woman is a huge stretch. I wrote more extensively on this in another thread, if you'd like for me to dig it up I can. But when it comes to Mary and Scriptures, when you say that there's "tons and tons" about her, I feel that it's more "Okay, let's see what verses we can connect to Mary" rather then "Wow, Mary really connects with this verse."[/quote]

nope. Revelation is the most symbolic book there is, so that would be too easy. humor me and take a look at what i posted and you'll be eating your words.

[johnnydigit]

[quote name='Nun of That' post='1615361' date='Aug 1 2008, 03:38 PM']"you'd be crazy not to consecrate yourself. you can only benefit from being under Her mantle, and having her as your general when she crushes the head of the serpent! it's like having a spiritual bazooka over your shoulder, a sniper rifle with mounted shotgun, and the whole heavenly army behind you!"

Wow! That sounds pretty violent...[/quote]

the battle for souls is certainly no game!


[img]http://www.worldpressphoto.org/images/photocache/photos/Since%201955/1962_520x465x90.JPG[/img]
World press photo of the year 1955-2006
Héctor Rondón Lovera, Venezuela, Diario La República. Puerto Cabello naval base, Venezuela, 4 June 1962. A soldier who has been mortally wounded by a sniper clings onto navy chaplain Luis Padillo. About the image Braving the streets amid sniper fire, to offer last rites to the dying, the priest encountered a wounded soldier, who pulled himself up by clinging to the priest's cassock, as bullets chewed up the concrete around them. Rondón Lovera, who had to lie flat to avoid getting shot, later said that he was unsure how he managed to take this picture.

[img]http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e129/Piotr_360/50176420.jpg[/img]
World Press Photo of the Year: 1969 Hanns-Jörg Anders, Germany, Stern. Londonderry, Northern Ireland, May 1969. A young Catholic during clash with British troops. About the image After a night of street fighting, everyone was fleeing the teargas, when Anders saw a gas masked boy, who had stopped in front of a wall inscribed with "we want peace". He only had time to take two pictures before the teargas enveloped him.

Fr. Thomas NangleChaplain WWI
[img]http://www.tidespoint.com/books/soldier_priest.jpg[/img]

[url="http://www.amateurphotographer.co.uk/reviews/David_Cairns_-_Under_fire_features_123184.html?offset=&offset=2"]Father Alex Reid gives the last rites to a dying British soldier. Belfast, 1988 Canon T90, 500mm, Fujichrome Sensia 200 [/url]

[TotusTuusMaria]

[b]"Thanks to St. Louis of Montfort, I came to understand that true devotion to the Mother of God is actually Christocentric, indeed, it is very profoundly rooted in the Mystery of the Blessed Trinity, and the mysteries of the Incarnation and the Redemption." [/b][u][/u] - His Holiness John Paul II, from [i]Crossing the Threshold of Hope[/i]

It may be interesting to note to those who have not read Montfort, that his moto was "To God Alone." This saintly man, who wrote and preached of absolute and true devotion to the Blessed Mother through total consecration had a moto and it was "To God alone." In french he signed it: "Dieufeul," replacing the dot of the "i" with a heart which he used as a reminder that the God who is whorshiped is the God who is love. True devotion to Mary does not lead to worship of Mary... it leads to a greater and deeper relationship with Our Lord. It leads "To God Alone."

It was about a year ago that I came in contact with this type of Marian devotion. Never had I heard of it. It was absolutely new to me. Since then, I have not taken the consecration despite what my sn may imply, but I do hope, pray, and plan too. I am preparing. I know this is something very serious, and I want to be prepared.

Pope John Paul II consecrated himself to Mary. He spoke of a stage in his life where he also questioned if this form of devotion to Mary was Christocentric and not some form of Marian worship. In the end, he concluded that truly this devotion to Our Lady was absolutely Christocentric. I considered JPII to be a profoundly prayerful man of great sanctity. I do not doubt him at all about this. Consecration to Mary is Christocentric at it's very core. It leads to Christ. It leads to a more profound and intimate relationship with Christ.

Mother Teresa is the other figure of our day that I consider to have been a walking saint. This is what she wrote: [b]"[i]Be only all for Jesus through Mary. Be holy[/i]." [/b]

I really encourage anyone who is questioning this to get the book [i]True Devotion to Mary[/i] by St. Louis de Montfort. It will answer any concerns and questions you might have. Those who are truly inquisitive about this form of Marian devotion, true marian devotion, will get this book to answer their questions.

[quote]123. It follows then: (1) that by this devotion we give to Jesus all we can possibly give him, and in the most perfect manner, that is, through Mary's hands. Indeed we give him far more than we do by other devotions which require us to give only part of our time, some of our good works or acts of atonement and penances. In this devotion everything is given and consecrated, even the right to dispose freely of one's spiritual goods and the satisfactions earned by daily good works. This is not done even in religious orders. Members of religious orders give God their earthly goods by the vow of poverty, the goods of the body by the vow of chastity, their free will by the vow of obedience, and sometimes their freedom of movement by the vow of enclosure. But they do not give him by these vows the liberty and right to dispose of the value of their good works. They do not despoil themselves of what a Christian considers most precious and most dear– his merits and satisfactions.

124. (2) It follows then that anyone who in this way consecrates and sacrifices himself voluntarily to Jesus through Mary may no longer dispose of the value of any of his good actions. All his sufferings, all his thoughts, words, and deeds belong to Mary. She can then dispose of them in accordance with the will of her Son and for his greater glory. This dependence, however, is without detriment to the duties of a person's present and future state of life. One such duty, for example, would be that of a priest who, by virtue of his office or otherwise, must apply the satisfactory or prayer value of the Holy Mass to a particular person. For this consecration can only be made in accordance with the order established by God and in keeping with the duties of one's state of life.

125. (3) It follows that we consecrate ourselves at one and the same time to Mary and to Jesus. We give ourselves to Mary because Jesus chose her as the perfect means to unite himself to us and unite us to him. We give ourselves to Jesus because he is our last end. Since he is our Redeemer and our God we are indebted to him for all that we are.[/quote]

I desire to be like Jesus. Jesus lived most of his entire life, but three years, in perfect obedience and devotion to Our Lady, doing what she pleased and asked of him and listening to her. He instructs us to be like Him. I, like Him, wish to live in obedience and devotion to Our Lady entirely, like Him. I know this will lead to my knowing and understanding Him better, as no one knew and understood him more then Our Lady. I know this will conform me more to Himself, as this is what he did. This will make me more like Him. He wishes and desires to go through Mary. And because of this I wish and desire to go through Mary. There is no safer and surer way to Our Lord then through Mary.

"If you say 'Mary', she says 'God'." - St. Louis de Montfort

To Jesus through Mary. Totus Tuus Maria. To God Alone.

Edited August 2, 2008 by TotusTuusMaria

[TotusTuusMaria]

[quote]61. Jesus, our Saviour, true God and true man must be the ultimate end of all our other devotions; otherwise they would be false and misleading. He is the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and end of everything. "We labour," says St. Paul, "only to make all men perfect in Jesus Christ."

For in him alone dwells the entire fullness of the divinity and the complete fullness of grace, virtue and perfection. In him alone we have been blessed with every spiritual blessing; he is the only teacher from whom we must learn; the only Lord on whom we should depend; the only Head to whom we should be united and the only model that we should imitate. He is the only Physician that can heal us; the only Shepherd that can feed us; the only Way that can lead us; the only Truth that we can believe; the only Life that can animate us. He alone is everything to us and he alone can satisfy all our desires.

We are given no other name under heaven by which we can be saved. God has laid no other foundation for our salvation, perfection and glory than Jesus. Every edifice which is not built on that firm rock, is founded upon shifting sands and will certainly fall sooner or later. Every one of the faithful who is not united to him is like a branch broken from the stem of the vine. It falls and withers and is fit only to be burnt. If we live in Jesus and Jesus lives in us, we need not fear damnation. Neither angels in heaven nor men on earth, nor devils in hell, no creature whatever can harm us, for no creature can separate us from the love of God which is in Christ Jesus. Through him, with him and in him, we can do all things and render all honour and glory to the Father in the unity of the Holy Spirit; we can make ourselves perfect and be for our neighbour a fragrance of eternal life.

62. If then we are establishing sound devotion to our Blessed Lady, it is only in order to establish devotion to our Lord more perfectly, by providing a smooth but certain way of reaching Jesus Christ. If devotion to our Lady distracted us from our Lord, we would have to reject it as an illusion of the devil. But this is far from being the case. As I have already shown and will show again later on, this devotion is necessary, simply and solely because it is a way of reaching Jesus perfectly, loving him tenderly, and serving him faithfully.

63. Here I turn to you for a moment, dear Jesus, to complain lovingly to your divine Majesty that the majority of Christians, and even some of the most learned among them, do not recognise the necessary bond that unites you and your Blessed Mother. Lord, you are always with Mary and Mary is always with you. She can never be without you because then she would cease to be what she is. She is so completely transformed into you by grace that she no longer lives, she no longer exists, because you alone, dear Jesus, live and reign in her more perfectly than in all the angels and saints. If we only knew the glory and the love given to you by this wonderful creature, our feelings for you and for her would be far different from those we have now. So intimately is she united to you that it would be easier to separate light from the sun, and heat from the fire. I go further, it would even be easier to separate all the angels and saints from you than Mary; for she loves you ardently, and glorifies you more perfectly than all your other creatures put together.

64. In view of this, my dear Master, is it not astonishing and pitiful to see the ignorance and short-sightedness of men with regard to your holy Mother? I am not speaking so much of idolaters and pagans who do not know you and consequently have no knowledge of her. I am not even speaking of heretics and schismatics who have left you and your holy Church and therefore are not interested in your holy Mother. I am speaking of Catholics, and even of educated Catholics, who profess to teach the faith to others but do not know you or your Mother except speculatively, in a dry, cold and sterile way.

These people seldom speak of your Mother or devotion to her. They say they are afraid that devotion to her will be abused and that you will be offended by excessive honour paid to her. They protest loudly when they see or hear a devout servant of Mary speak frequently with feeling, conviction and vigour of devotion to her. When he speaks of devotion to her as a sure means of finding and loving you without fear or illusion, or when he says this devotion is a short road free from danger, or an immaculate way free from imperfection, or a wondrous secret of finding you, they put before him a thousand specious reasons to show him how wrong he is to speak so much of Mary. There are, they say, great abuses in this devotion which we should try to stamp out and we should refer people to you rather than exhort them to have devotion to your Mother, whom they already love adequately.

If they are sometimes heard speaking of devotion to your Mother, it is not for the purpose of promoting it or convincing people of it but only to destroy the abuses made of it. Yet all the while these persons are devoid of piety or genuine devotion to you, for they have no devotion to Mary. They consider the Rosary and the Scapular as devotions suitable only for simple women or ignorant people. After all, they say, we do not need them to be saved. If they come across one who loves our Lady, who says the rosary or shows any devotion towards her, they soon move him to a change of mind and heart. They advise him to say the seven penitential psalms instead of the Rosary, and to show devotion to Jesus instead of to Mary.

Dear Jesus, do these people possess your spirit? Do they please you by acting in this way? Would it please you if we were to make no effort to give pleasure to your Mother because we are afraid of offending you? Does devotion to your holy Mother hinder devotion to you? Does Mary keep for herself any honour we pay her? Is she a rival of yours? Is she a stranger having no kinship with you? Does pleasing her imply displeasing you? Does the gift of oneself to her constitute a deprivation for you? Is love for her a lessening of our love for you?

65. Nevertheless, my dear Master, the majority of learned scholars could not be further from devotion to your Mother, or show more indifference to it even if all I have just said were true. Keep me from their way of thinking and acting and let me share your feelings of gratitude, esteem, respect and love for your holy Mother. I can then love and glorify you all the more, because I will be imitating and following you more closely.

66. As though I had said nothing so far to further her honour, grant me now the grace to praise her more worthily, in spite of all her enemies who are also yours. I can then say to them boldly with the saints, "Let no one presume to expect mercy from God, who offends his holy Mother."[/quote]

[friendofJPII]

[quote name='mommas_boy' post='1613493' date='Jul 30 2008, 09:24 PM']I found this awesome passage for those of you familiar with St. Louis de Montfort's Total Consecration to Our Lady. It's excerpted from this site:

[url="http://www.newjerusalem.com/conditions.htm"]http://www.newjerusalem.com/conditions.htm[/url]

Do enjoy, and if you're unfamiliar with the consecration, ask questions. It's pretty awesome.

[indent]
[center][size=5]Proper Conditions for Total Consecration to Mary[/size][/center]
... This consecration has the characters of a vow: because it is a most solemn and eternal dedication. It is more than an ordinary promise - which is not binding under penalty of sin; but it is less demanding that the solemn vows, which one would make to become a professed religious. Still, the effect of this consecration, properly made, is irrevocable. Once a person understands the nature of this consecration, he understands that he is entirely abrogating any of his natural spiritual rights to dictate where the merits of his good actions might be applied. A person who makes this consecration, may fast and pray for any intention he would like; but he has absolutely no assurance that merits of his fasts and prayers will be applied for that intention. In fact, he can almost be certain that Our Lady may often see a greater spiritual need elsewhere; she may freely use these merits for anything that she desires. He can not, in fact, even offer up prayers and fasts for himself. He entirely abrogates possession of himself; he completely gives away ownership of his own body and his soul, all of his material possessions, and even the right to to dispose of the values of any of his good actions.

One must trust that Our Lady will tenderly care for all his needs: just as she cared for the needs of Jesus. However, a soul thus consecrated to her, can never DEMAND anything from her. He has willingly offered himself to her, to be her slave. A slave cannot demand anything from his master. One must completely resign himself to her will, to her generosity, and to her protection. It is precisely in the complete surrender of one's own soul to trust in the Blessed Virgin, from which come the most extraordinary graces. One gives up his own body and soul, but replaces himself, in his own estimation, by becoming the servant, the complete slave, and the absolute possession of Most Holy Mary. One must now rely upon her for absolutely everything. Her wisdom will dictate his circumstances; and her will shall dictate the distribution of all of his sanctifying graces.

Even if they forget about her: she will not forget about them: or their solemn consecration to her. She may bless them when they do not deserve anything at all, and she may seem to permit them to endure chastisements and crosses which they feel are completely unfair. They must resign themselves to be used by her, as her own possessions. They must accept that she will now use them as instruments to crush the head of Satan. Because they now belong to the Blessed Virgin, every good thing they do is actually the work of the Blessed Virgin, and the spiritual merit of every evil they are forced to endure is now the property of the Blessed Virgin. Our Lady will use these special children to crush the head of Satan in the apocalyptic battle of these end times. Satan is painfully aware of who is responsible for his defeat: because it comes primarily through these very souls who are so especially consecrated to Mary. Mary will use her most humble children to crush the head of this ancient serpent, and they will be used to thwart his proud servants who seem to be the rulers of this earth. Satan hates these souls with a special vengeance. They must stay very, very close to their mother, sacramentally and spiritually, or he will wreak terrible havoc in their lives in every way he can. However, she will only allow him to persecute such souls, insofar as it is required to convince them of their own incapacity: and of their great need of her powerful protection.

Because of the grave and serious nature of this total consecration; one must not enter into it lightly. The less serious one is, the less one really belongs to the Blessed Virgin. A soul must diligently prepare for this special act of consecration. Though one may begin to recite the act of consecration immediately, one still must make a very special Act of Consecration with the greatest solemnity on a specific day. One should most certainly go to mass on the day of ones solemn consecration. One should offer his private intentions of the mass for the perfect efficacy of the consecration he is about to make. A person would be wise to save the Act of Total Consecration, and to reformat the document so that it includes their own name full confirmation name. One should also sign and date the document, and then save it. This paper in fact becomes the original deed of ones own body and soul; it becomes the temporal evidence that one has dedicated himself to really be the possession of the Most Blessed Virgin Mary. One should then re-consecrate himself on this same day, every year, using the same form of consecration for the rest of his life.

On a daily basis, the soul may exchange the act of consecration to something short and simple, such as the prayer St. Louis DeMontfort recommends: "I am all thine Immaculate One, with all that I have: in time and in eternity." Any similar prayer is sufficient to continue to grow in the extremely valuable prerogatives of sanctifying grace, which are now available through this extraordinary consecration. Most Holy Mary is never out-done in generosity. She will repay a hundred fold anyone who will consecrate themselves to her in this way. That person however, can not demand anything from Our Lady. One may only present their needs and desires with humble confidence; they must trust that her wisdom and generosity will take care of all their needs; she will exceed the desires of their own expectations.

However, one must be prepared not to receive graces and heavenly prerogatives in the manner which one expects. It is almost certain, that in most instances, Our Lady will not do a souls bidding in the way a soul imagines that she might. The soul must accept that IN FACT: IT IS HER PROPERTY. A person can not use Mary: Mary will use the person! This is very painful for most people, who are secretly filled with self love. It would be best for a person who consecrates himself to Our Lady in this way, simply to believe that he is interiorly filled with pride and self love. They must be prepared for Our Lady to rid them of this self love, by forcing them to resign their will to hers. This can be very painful, and it is often infuriating to the soul who expects that the designs of own will be accomplished according to its own desires. The only relief comes through accepting that one has no choice, and no options. One must habitually learn to accept the providence of God, as it is ordained through Our Lady's gentle, but very real wisdom ...
[/indent][/quote]

Wow, I don't think I fully understood all that when I was in college and made the consecration.

[HisChildForever]

This would be ten times easier if the Scriptures actually said, outright, "Mary is the Queen of Heaven" or if the apostles (like in Acts or the epistles) literally spoke about Mary and her perfection. Clearly she plays a huge role in the Church - seeing as she's considerably important and there's talk of becoming a "slave" to her, wouldn't it only make sense for all this devotion to be listed in Scriptures? It's like the snowball affect - more and more gets added about her over time when there was so little in the Bible to begin with. Alright, you can say that there are parallels with her to the Ark, but would it be so hard for St. Paul to jot this down in a paragraph or two? Those links you provided, I see lots of fancy words but where are the references? I am thirsting for answers to these questions that I simply can't find anywhere. So much Marian devotion borders on worship and it's simply wrong. She deserves honor but not worship.

[DiscerningSoul]

While I don't always understand what I read. (I'm blonde ya' know)
I don't mind at all giving myself to Mary and Jesus. I am there child, I rely on them.

[MissyP89]

Bear in mind, HCF, if this feels wrong to you then you don't need to do it. Those who have done it have found it helpful, but isn't necessary at all to live as a Catholic in the state of grace.

[HisChildForever]

[quote name='MissyP89' post='1616125' date='Aug 2 2008, 08:20 PM']Bear in mind, HCF, if this feels wrong to you then you don't need to do it. Those who have done it have found it helpful, but isn't necessary at all to live as a Catholic in the state of grace.

[/quote]

I know It just makes me super wary. Shouldn't we be leaping at the chance to consecrate ourselves to Jesus?

[friendofJPII]

[quote name='HisChildForever' post='1616168' date='Aug 2 2008, 08:11 PM']I know It just makes me super wary. Shouldn't we be leaping at the chance to consecrate ourselves to Jesus?[/quote]


It is difficult to understand, but when we consecrate ourselves to Jesus, we are consecrating ourselves to Mary, and vice versa. Jesus and Mary are so closley united. His will is her will, and Her will is His will.

The St. Louis Marie DeMontfort consecration is not mandatory, and I don't think everyone is ready for it.

Edited August 3, 2008 by friendofJPII

[HisChildForever]

[quote name='friendofJPII' post='1616170' date='Aug 2 2008, 09:14 PM']It is difficult to understand, but when we consecrate ourselves to Jesus, we are consecrating ourselves to Mary, and vice versa. Jesus and Mary are so closley united. [b]His will is her will, and Her will is His will[/b].

The St. Louis Marie DeMontfort consecration is not mandatory, and I don't think everyone is ready for it.[/quote]

That just brings me right back to where I started. What I bolded - Mary is not equal to Jesus! Jesus is God, Mary is not. Where does it even imply this in the Bible?

[friendofJPII]

[quote name='HisChildForever' post='1616172' date='Aug 2 2008, 08:16 PM']That just brings me right back to where I started. What I bolded - Mary is not equal to Jesus! Jesus is God, Mary is not. Where does it even imply this in the Bible?[/quote]


Everything is the Catholic faith is not in the Bible. We do see a glimpse of her intercession at the wedding at Cana. It was after her insistance that Jesus performed his first miracle. Would he have done it anyway? Maybe, but she definately pulled on his heartstrings!

Mary is not equal to Jesus, but she is so closely untied to Him that she knows his desires, more than any other creature or Saint.

I can understand your confusion, however, If I were of another faith tradition and read posts like these, I would think that Catholics worship Mary too.

[lilac_angel]

[quote name='HisChildForever' post='1616168' date='Aug 2 2008, 08:11 PM']I know It just makes me super wary. Shouldn't we be leaping at the chance to consecrate ourselves to Jesus?[/quote]

Some people may feel more comfortable consecrating themselves to a feminine/maternal figure or simply feel more "at ease" talking to her, at least at some point on their spiritual journey. I felt more intrigued by her as someone who was younger in the faith. Not long after, I was pointed straight to the Mass and the Eucharist. She's the mother of the Church, and we should have no shame in drawing closer to her for comfort and guidance toward a very strong relationship with her Son.

Which is not to say that I still don't have a strong devotion to her - I still emphasize Christ all the more, as all of her devotions are very Christocentric.

Edited August 3, 2008 by lilac_angel

[HisChildForever]

[quote]Everything is the Catholic faith is not in the Bible.[/quote]

I know, but judging the extreme importance that is placed upon Mary in the Catholic Church, you would think that it would be in the Bible. Like I said a couple of posts ago, I don't understand why St. Paul (for example) didn't go off about Mary and this and that.

[Norseman82]

[quote name='MissyP89' post='1616125' date='Aug 2 2008, 08:20 PM']Bear in mind, HCF, if this feels wrong to you then you don't need to do it. Those who have done it have found it helpful, but isn't necessary at all to live as a Catholic in the state of grace.[/quote]

I think this is the most important statement in this thread yet.

[HisChildForever]

[quote name='Norseman82' post='1616236' date='Aug 2 2008, 10:25 PM']I think this is the most important statement in this thread yet.[/quote]

I think I'm going to buy the book suggested to get a better understanding.

[lilac_angel]

I personally don't know of any Catholics who have done the consecration. I don't think it's very widespread, unless I'm unaware of its popularity. It may call out to some and really appeal to some. I have never gone through with the whole consecration - got a bit sidetracked but may return someday - but I see the amount of self-denial and total humility it demands... very biblical concepts. It's quite a challenge but I can definitely see the imitation of Christ it requires.. and you know what they say.. imitation is the highest form of flattery.

Edited August 3, 2008 by lilac_angel

[MissyP89]

[quote name='Norseman82' post='1616236' date='Aug 2 2008, 10:25 PM']I think this is the most important statement in this thread yet.[/quote]

Cool. Thanks.

I only say it because it's what I myself have embraced. Like HCF, Marian things, or certain language like that used by Montfort, can rub me the wrong way or just make me uncomfortable. As I've said elsewhere, my main pulls are toward the Blessed Sacrament and the Divine Mercy. If people don't have the same zeal for them as I do, that's fine as well.

We all stand in each other's gaps, I think. As long as we all agree that Our Lady is "full of grace" and worthy of our respect and love, there shouldn't be a problem, IMHO.

Edited August 3, 2008 by MissyP89

[HisChildForever]

Heck, it's only nine bucks?

[url="http://www.amazon.com/True-Devotion-Mary-Louis-Monfort/dp/0895552795"]http://www.amazon.com/True-Devotion-Mary-L...t/dp/0895552795[/url]

I'm just throwing the link on here to make sure this is the right one.

[friendofJPII]

[quote name='lilac_angel' post='1616242' date='Aug 2 2008, 09:35 PM']I personally don't know of any Catholics who have done the consecration. I don't think it's very widespread, unless I'm unaware of its popularity. It may call out to some and really appeal to some. I have never gone through with the whole consecration - got a bit sidetracked but may return someday - but I see the amount of self-denial and total humility it demands... very biblical concepts. It's quite a challenge but I can definitely see the imitation of Christ it requires.. and you know what they say.. imitation is the highest form of flattery.[/quote]

It was really popular at FUS when I was there. I don't know if it still is. We had a campus wide consecration.