Spiritual Gifts

[Deb]

[quote name='KevinSymonds' post='1618319' date='Aug 5 2008, 03:57 PM']I think the charismata are largely misunderstood.[/quote]


Obviously. That said, I am off to a healing Mass.

[Selah]

I am usually skeptical about people who claim to have spiritual gifts, simply because so many claim it nowadays...some even use them as a way to attract business (Benny Hinn anyone?)

If I ever acquired one, only God would be the one to know, unless He were to ask me otherwise. Even then, I wouldn't make a spectacle of it.

[friendofJPII]

[quote name='Selah' post='1618540' date='Aug 5 2008, 06:15 PM']I am usually skeptical about people who claim to have spiritual gifts, simply because so many claim it nowadays...some even use them as a way to attract business (Benny Hinn anyone?)

If I ever acquired one, only God would be the one to know, unless He were to ask me otherwise. Even then, I wouldn't make a spectacle of it.[/quote]

yes, I agree with you, the only reason why I mentioned that I have the gift of tounges is because I wanted to clarify to some what it is (not that I understand it fully) and that it is not as scary as it seems. It is really just a way to release more fully to the Holy Spirit.

Edited August 6, 2008 by friendofJPII

[fides quarens intellectum]

[quote name='Selah' post='1618540' date='Aug 5 2008, 06:15 PM']I am usually skeptical about people who claim to have spiritual gifts, simply because so many claim it nowadays...some even use them as a way to attract business (Benny Hinn anyone?)

If I ever acquired one, only God would be the one to know, unless He were to ask me otherwise. Even then, I wouldn't make a spectacle of it.[/quote]

You probably don't mean to come off this way, but when i read something like this, i am wondering - what - they don't think they have administration, celibacy, craftsmanship, discernment of spirits, encouragement, evangelism, faith, giving, healing, helps, hospitality, intercessory prayer, knowledge, leadership, mercy, missionary, music, pastoring, prophecy, service, teaching, voluntary poverty, wisdom, or writing? What? Not one of them?

If you are meaning specific gifts, like tongues, i can see what you are trying to get across. But, for spiritual gifts in general, i stand with the notion that all of us are given spiritual gifts (or charisms, if you prefer) by the Holy SPirit, at Baptism and Confirmation, that are to be used for the building up of the Church. Thus, it saddens me when i hear someone thinking they somehow missed out on spiritual gift-distribution. Again, maybe you weren't trying to come across that way.

[Deb]

[quote name='Selah' post='1618540' date='Aug 5 2008, 07:15 PM']I am usually skeptical about people who claim to have spiritual gifts, simply because so many claim it nowadays...some even use them as a way to attract business (Benny Hinn anyone?)

If I ever acquired one, only God would be the one to know, unless He were to ask me otherwise. Even then, I wouldn't make a spectacle of it.[/quote]


Gifts are to be used outward, to build up the Kingdom of God on earth. That is why they are given. Most people don't make a spectacle of it. Sometime when you see someone in your parish doing something really well, leading retreats, hospitality and many other things, they are using their gift. Tongues is just a short lived more obvious one.

[Selah]

[quote name='fides quarens intellectum' post='1618784' date='Aug 6 2008, 12:19 AM']You probably don't mean to come off this way, but when i read something like this, i am wondering - what - they don't think they have administration, celibacy, craftsmanship, discernment of spirits, encouragement, evangelism, faith, giving, healing, helps, hospitality, intercessory prayer, knowledge, leadership, mercy, missionary, music, pastoring, prophecy, service, teaching, voluntary poverty, wisdom, or writing? What? Not one of them?

If you are meaning specific gifts, like tongues, i can see what you are trying to get across. But, for spiritual gifts in general, i stand with the notion that all of us are given spiritual gifts (or charisms, if you prefer) by the Holy SPirit, at Baptism and Confirmation, that are to be used for the building up of the Church. Thus, it saddens me when i hear someone thinking they somehow missed out on spiritual gift-distribution. Again, maybe you weren't trying to come across that way. [/quote]

I was speaking on tongues, prophecy, healing, casting out demons, etc. So many claim to have these gifts, so when it comes to them...I will admit I am a tad skeptical.

But no, I didn't mean to disreguard mercy, leadership, intercession, service, etc.

[mortify]

Pentecost was a unique event.

[url="http://www.sensustraditionis.org/webaudio/Sermons/KC/Disk%201/Pentecost.mp3"][u]Pentecost sermon mp3[/u][/url]

Edited August 7, 2008 by mortify

[Deb]

[quote name='Selah' post='1619793' date='Aug 6 2008, 09:33 PM']I was speaking on tongues, prophecy, healing, casting out demons, etc. So many claim to have these gifts, so when it comes to them...I will admit I am a tad skeptical.

But no, I didn't mean to disreguard mercy, leadership, intercession, service, etc. [/quote]


Well, if you actually was given the gift of healing or prophecy, I hope you share them with the world. The only people I know who have the gift of healing are Priests. They really do have the gift of healing too.
I know two people who prophecy or who have visions etc and they are the real deal. So, sharing is good but, I don't think it is that hard to discern when someone has a true gift or when they are just wishing they did.

[fides quarens intellectum]

[quote]Pope's intentions for the month of August, 2008:

Mission:
That the answer of the entire people of God to the common calling to holiness and mission may be promoted and fostered by means of careful discernment of charisms and constant commitment to spiritual and cultural formation.[/quote]

[abercius24]

One thing to consider in all this is that people who have such gifts find themselves very lonely and confused if they don't find outlets of expression. Our modern day world is very unbelieving of anything spiritual in general. If a conference is the only way one can outwardly explore such gifts, then there is great value in such a conference. I agree that there are a lot of "fake" or "self-deluded" people who believe they have such gifts, but even these people despite their ignorance aid those who actually have such gifts. And yes, in my experience, these gifts are much more tame and subtle than what you normally see. But you gotta admit, even if one person in a group of 50,000 is praying in tongues, that is a very unique and wonderful presence of the Holy Spirit.

By the way, "praying in tongues" and "speaking in tongues" are two different things. "Praying in tongues" is indistinguishable to the average ear and requires an interpreter as Paul speaks of in Corinthians (and by the way, he mentions that such should not be done before unbelievers). "Speaking in tongues" is the phenomena where one speaks in a mystical language that is heard by everyone as being of their own native tongue. As far as I know, this only occured in the case of the Apostles at Pentecost as accounted in the Acts of the Apostles.

[johnnydigit]

[quote name='fides quarens intellectum' post='1620540' date='Aug 7 2008, 03:22 PM']Pope's intentions for the month of August, 2008:

Mission:
That the answer of the entire people of God to the common calling to holiness and mission may be promoted and fostered by means of careful discernment of charisms and constant commitment to spiritual and cultural formation.[/quote]

yowza! is it me or does that sound like a direct address to a certain people? interpreter, please!

[Deb]

Pope's intentions for the month of August, 2008:

Mission:
That the answer of the entire people of God to the common calling to holiness and mission may be promoted and fostered by means of careful discernment of charisms and constant commitment to spiritual and cultural formation.

yowza! is it me or does that sound like a direct address to a certain people? interpreter, please!





Papa really knows best. He pretty much said it all and in very simple terms. I love our Pope!!

[fides quarens intellectum]

[quote name='abercius24' post='1621138' date='Aug 8 2008, 12:02 AM']One thing to consider in all this is that people who have such gifts find themselves very lonely and confused if they don't find outlets of expression. Our modern day world is very unbelieving of anything spiritual in general. If a conference is the only way one can outwardly explore such gifts, then there is great value in such a conference. I agree that there are a lot of "fake" or "self-deluded" people who believe they have such gifts, but even these people despite their ignorance aid those who actually have such gifts. And yes, in my experience, these gifts are much more tame and subtle than what you normally see. But you gotta admit, even if one person in a group of 50,000 is praying in tongues, that is a very unique and wonderful presence of the Holy Spirit.[/quote]

Perhaps many may feel lonely and confused at first, but again, i think spiritual direction is key in discerning charisms.

[quote name='johnnydigit' post='1621177' date='Aug 8 2008, 02:19 AM']yowza! is it me or does that sound like a direct address to a certain people? interpreter, please![/quote]



[quote name='Deb' post='1621217' date='Aug 8 2008, 07:11 AM']Pope's intentions for the month of August, 2008:

Mission:
That the answer of the entire people of God to the common calling to holiness and mission may be promoted and fostered by means of careful discernment of charisms and constant commitment to spiritual and cultural formation.

yowza! is it me or does that sound like a direct address to a certain people? interpreter, please!


Papa really knows best. He pretty much said it all and in very simple terms. I love our Pope!![/quote]

Me too, and we should pray for his intentions!!

[KOIfriend]

[quote name='Treehugger' post='1615581' date='Aug 2 2008, 12:59 AM']When I was only about twelve years old I went to a Catholic retreat (through my very charismatic church) and the atmosphere was very intense. There was an opportunity to be "prayed over/with" by adult leaders. I witnessed many of the youth start speaking in tongues during this prayer time. Also, there came a point where this one girl in the group was just on her own praying silently when she suddenly started convulsing, but then started to quote scripture. She was quoting different things that Jesus said, but in first person...more scripture than she could probably reference normally. Also, when the shaking and everything stopped, she started singing so angelically. Many of the youth gathered around her with their hands extended in prayer and their eyes wide with curiousity and intrigue. (Who wouldn't be?) Also, some adults were conflicted in their discernment of spirits. Some thought it was all God there, and some thought things were not...of the Holy Spirit. Also, many people had rested in the spirit...having dreams and visions....seeing angels...that sort of thing. Many of the youth did not know what to expect. This was a shock for sure. Also, many people did not know how to respond to what happened. On the bus ride home, the young people swapped testimonies and asked their friends, "So, did you get a gift of the spirit or not." Unfortunately this sort of created and "In the club"/"out of the club division" and put pressure on many of the youth who felt that maybe they had done something wrong in the process.

I believe that spiritual gifts do exist, even in the modern context of our faith. But it is easy for personal agendas, indivual motives, and circumstances conducive to producing perhaps a more emotional rather than spiritual experience to get in the way of receiving the authentic gift that the Spirit sends.[/quote]

Both joking and serious.

The last time I heard someone rolling on the ground in the bible was -

KJV -

[quote]And when they were come to the multitude, there came to him a certain man, kneeling down to him, and saying,

Lord, have mercy on my son: for he is[b] lunatick, and sore vexed: for ofttimes he falleth into the fire, and oft into the water.[/b]

And I brought him to thy disciples, and they could not cure him.

Then Jesus answered and said, O faithless and perverse generation, how long shall I be with you? how long shall I suffer you? bring him hither to me.

[b]And Jesus rebuked the devil; and he departed out of him: and the child was cured from that very hour.[/b]

Then came the disciples to Jesus apart, and said, Why could not we cast him out?

And Jesus said unto them, Because of your unbelief: for verily I say unto you, If ye have faith as a grain of mustard seed, ye shall say unto this mountain, Remove hence to yonder place; and it shall remove; and nothing shall be impossible unto you.[/quote]

or even NIV (I can't believe I am actually using this translation, but it will help)

[quote]When they came to the crowd, a man approached Jesus and knelt before him. "Lord, have mercy on my son," he said. "[b]He has seizures and is suffering greatly. He often falls into the fire or into the water[/b]. I brought him to your disciples, but they could not heal him."
"O unbelieving and perverse generation," Jesus replied, "how long shall I stay with you? How long shall I put up with you? Bring the boy here to me." [b]Jesus rebuked the demon, and it came out of the boy, and he was healed from that moment.[/b]

Then the disciples came to Jesus in private and asked, "Why couldn't we drive it out?"

He replied, "Because you have so little faith. I tell you the truth, if you have faith as small as a mustard seed, you can say to this mountain, 'Move from here to there' and it will move. Nothing will be impossible for you."[/quote]

The last time I read in the Bible, some was convulsing, and have seizures, they were possessed by a demon! What am I to believe, the testimony of men, saying convulsing is of God, or the Bible?

I guess that is the weakness of the Educational system. People seem to forget to think things out before they emotionally say something.

I would have been horrified, seeing people squirming on the ground, because my God would never be so cruel to potentially hurt someone!

Edited August 9, 2008 by KOIfriend

[Nihil Obstat]

[quote name='KOIfriend' post='1622302' date='Aug 9 2008, 12:05 AM']Both joking and serious.

The last time I heard someone rolling on the ground in the bible was -

KJV -
or even NIV (I can't believe I am actually using this translation, but it will help)
The last time I read in the Bible, some was convulsing, and have seizures, they were possessed by a demon! What am I to believe, the testimony of men, saying convulsing is of God, or the Bible?

I guess that is the weakness of the Educational system. People seem to forget to think things out before they emotionally say something.

I would have been horrified, seeing people squirming on the ground, because my God would never be so cruel to potentially hurt someone![/quote]
I would like to point out that the 'spiritual gifts' we have been discussing are not confined to "rolling on the ground".
I think you're trying to look at this issue in an extremely oversimplified way.