Ghosts

[Lil Red]

+J.M.J.+
I was recently told that there is no such thing as ghosts (from a Catholic perspective). I'm not sure what to believe, so what do you think? From a Catholic perspective, is there such a thing as ghosts?

[prose]

I have no idea. There seems to be quite a bit of evidence to their existence, but I have no idea.

I guess it depends on the definition of "ghost".

[havok579257]

Ummm... the Holy Ghost comes to mind.

[add]

There is always the trinity; the Father, the Son and the [u]Holy Ghost[/u]

The Holy Ghost is depicted as the third Person of One God”

[u]Speaking[/u] .. Wherefore, even as the Holy Spirit saith, Today if ye shall hear his voice (Hebrews 3:7)

[u]Thinking[/u] .. But unto us God revealed them through the Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God. (1 Corinthians 2:10)

[u]Reasoning[/u] … For it seemed good to the Holy Spirit, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things: (Acts 15:28)

[u]Feeling[/u] .. And grieve not the Holy Spirit of God, in whom ye were sealed unto the day of redemption. (Ephesians 4:30)

[u]Eternal [/u].. how much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without blemish unto God, cleanse your conscience from dead works to serve the living God? (Hebrews 9:14)

[u]Omniscient[/u] .. But unto us God revealed [i]them[/i] through the Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God. For who among men knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of the man, which is in him? even so the things of God none knoweth, save the Spirit of God. (1 Corinthians 2:10-11)

[u]Omnipresent[/u] .. Whither shall I go from thy Spirit? Or whither shall I flee from thy presence? (Psalms 139:7)

Edited August 11, 2008 by apparently

[TeresaBenedicta]

I don't know. I'm tempted to say (beyond the exception of the Holy Ghost) that 'no', there's not ghosts in the typical sense. I don't think there are souls that hang around earth like that.

I think that demons can appear as ghosts.

But, this is all just speculation on my behalf.

[aalpha1989]

[quote name='TeresaBenedicta' post='1624592' date='Aug 11 2008, 07:29 PM']I don't know. I'm tempted to say (beyond the exception of the Holy Ghost) that 'no', there's not ghosts in the typical sense. I don't think there are souls that hang around earth like that.

I think that demons can appear as ghosts.

But, this is all just speculation on my behalf.[/quote]

Agreed. I have always thought that the "supernatural activity" which honest people claim to have experienced, and attribute to ghosts, was angels or demons. I don't really see how one could say that souls "hang around on earth" (as TB said).

[add]

The cowardly lion from the wizard of oz, believes in um.

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='aalpha1989' post='1624608' date='Aug 11 2008, 08:47 PM']Agreed. I have always thought that the "supernatural activity" which honest people claim to have experienced, and attribute to ghosts, was angels or demons. I don't really see how one could say that souls "hang around on earth" (as TB said).[/quote]
Depends on how you define ghosts, doesn't it. I don't think God limits existence as we know it to just angels or demons.
I think the bard got it right" there are more things in heaven and earth Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy."

[Nihil Obstat]

[quote name='cmotherofpirl' post='1624639' date='Aug 11 2008, 07:02 PM']Depends on how you define ghosts, doesn't it. I don't think God limits existence as we know it to just angels or demons.[/quote]
Well plus humans.
...but that would be almost exactly what Fr. Amorth says.
"There are no good spirits except angels, and no evil spirits except demons."
Of course that doesn't limit human spirits, I suppose...
He also says "God very rarely allows a human to return to earth."
That implies to me that maybe sometimes it happens... but that doesn't speak to the level we see in books of ghost encounters.
Maybe there is some weight in the idea of 'negative energies' being imprinted somehow?

I did hear an extremely compelling case debunking ghost encounters actually! It was something like... sub aural frequencies... something along those lines. I can't remember if it's really really high frequencies or really really low, but it's completely out of range for us to hear. While we can't hear it though, there is a fundemental frequency that causes our cornea to vibrate. This vibration can cause us to see things out of the corner of our eye, or see strange lights.
At the same time, these frequencies vibrate at such a level to induce a very foreboding sort of feeling. That 'feeling of impending disaster' in the pit of your stomach.
Apparently this has all been tested and showed to be plausible.
Sorry though, I don't know any sources. I might be able to find it, but maybe better if you search it yourself.

[CatherineM]

I'm fairly sure my father haunts me sometimes. He was a practical joker (I still check my shoes sometimes for oatmeal before putting them on) and there are things that disappear around here and then show up later right where they were supposed to be. My former roommate used to get so mad when her stuff did that. It usually happened most when she wasn't being nice to me.

[KnightofChrist]

Ghosts are spirits... as stated by another there are two types of spirits Good and Evil, Angels and Demons. While limited Angels and Demons do at times physically effect our world.

[KnightofChrist]

Just thought I'd tell a story, when I was younger I believe I was 14, I was laying in my bed reading a Star Trek book in a room across from my parents room where everyone else of the family was on the bed reading a kids book.

As I was reading all of a sudden it got very cold in the room and I look up at the doorway and there was what I would describe as person a child who as dark as a shadow, up in the right hand corner of the door as if it was hanging from the ceiling looking at me. It was a very uneasy feeling to say the least. I just shot up and basically jump 20 feet into my parents room.

I know what I saw was really there, what it was I have no idea but it was shape exactly like a person and moved like one, it was the creepiest thing I can recall from my childhood.

Edited August 12, 2008 by KnightofChrist

[Lil Red]

+J.M.J.+
okay, i didn't mean Holy Ghost people. geesh.

[KnightofChrist]

[quote name='Lil Red' post='1624695' date='Aug 11 2008, 07:45 PM']+J.M.J.+
okay, i didn't mean Holy Ghost people. geesh. [/quote]

I know but it does help bringing it up in as much as it shows that a Ghost is a Spirit.

[Kitty]

Yes, I believe in ghosts. I believe I have obtained some photographic evidence of them, as well.
I think that many ghosts mean no harm and are only playful and like to make trouble (as in the case of haunted houses or other buildings) but I do think there are some that intend to cause terror and harm to humans (demons, possibly).

[cmotherofpirl]

Excerpt from Apologist Jimmy Akins on ghosts:
While there are, no doubt, many liberals who are attracted to the ghost hypothesis on account of New Age beliefs, consider the following:

"Ghost" is simply the German-derived equivalent of the Latin-derived word "Spirit." That's why the Holy Spirit is sometimes referred to as the Holy Ghost. Originally in English "ghost" and "spirit" referred to the same thing. Indeed, in German the word for "spirit" is still "geist." Rather than get hung up on semantics, we may wish to analyze claims about ghosts in terms of what we know about spirits.
First, spirits exist. This is a truth of the faith.
Second, spirits can sometimes manifest themselves to those in this life, as in the apparitions of the saints.
Third, there are even reports in Catholic history that spirits in purgatory have--by God's will--occasionally manifested themselves to those on earth. In these cases, those on earth may see the spirits experiencing their purgation in some way.
Therefore, if these reports are true, God may at times allow spirits to manifest to those on earth in a way that might lead folks to describe them as "ghosts."
Now, I'm not saying that this actually happens. I'm just saying that we shouldn't quickly scoff at the idea. It certainly has a place in Catholic tradition (lower "t" tradition). I know that folks today often repeat the mantra "There's no such things as ghosts," but it seems to me that this may have more with the influence of a secular/scientistic worldview than anything else. I see no theological reason to say that God doesn't allow this to happen on occasion. (On the other hand, I see no theological reason that compels us to the conclusion that he does, either.)

One note on the possibility of ghosts: Sometimes folks think of ghosts (or some ghosts) as malevolent. I don't see how that would be possible on the above account. Souls experiencing purgatory might seem strage or disquieting to individuals in this life and might appear malevolent, but they would not be. I don't see any evidence, though, that genuinely malevolent souls--i.e., the souls of the damned--could manifest on earth. Thus any genuinely malevolent ghosts would more likely represent demonic activity as far as I can tell.

These two phenomena--the "purgatory ghosts" and demons--also might explain so-called haunted houses and poltergeists ("noisy ghosts" in German).

[johnnydigit]

i've never seen a ghost. people i trust say they have, and i believe them. sometimes they were the only ones that could see them.

demons exist. some people can see them.. does that not count?

i guess a more specific question would be, can a spirit physically manifest itself on earth by becoming visual to any eye looking at it, or by manipulating matter (pushing something)?

people like Jesse Romero talk about people levitating. i've never seen anything extraordinary like that, but i don't doubt it.

[lilac_angel]

Jimmy Akin's thoughts on it seem pretty logical to me. I've read quite a few accounts of people allowed to become spiritually manifest to souls on earth while they're in Purgatory.

Edited August 12, 2008 by lilac_angel

[Selah]

[quote name='Lil Red' post='1624440' date='Aug 11 2008, 06:34 PM']+J.M.J.+
I was recently told that there is no such thing as ghosts (from a Catholic perspective). I'm not sure what to believe, so what do you think? From a Catholic perspective, is there such a thing as ghosts?[/quote]

I believe in ghosts. However, in reguards to ghosts wandering the earth...I do not believe that spirits are stranded or haunt places, etc. I think that demoniac activity can manisfest itself as a ghost to deceive, however. Although I do think that if God allows it, he can permit a departed soul to go back to earth for a period. I use the Transfiguration and also, was not St. Agatha healed through a vision of St. Peter after being brutally assulted? God can allow these things to happen. However, I am very much skeptical about ghost stories, evp's, etc.

[lilac_angel]

[quote name='Selah' post='1624811' date='Aug 11 2008, 09:12 PM']I believe in ghosts. However, in reguards to ghosts wandering the earth...I do not believe that spirits are stranded or haunt places, etc. I think that demoniac activity can manisfest itself as a ghost to deceive, however. Although I do think that if God allows it, he can permit a departed soul to go back to earth for a period. I use the Transfiguration and also, was not St. Agatha healed through a vision of St. Peter after being brutally assulted? God can allow these things to happen. However, I am very much skeptical about ghost stories, evp's, etc.[/quote]

The vision of saint Peter would be considered an "apparition" more commonly among Catholics, especially since he's in Heaven. But I guess the two terms, ghost and apparition, are pretty much the same things...