Spiritual_Arsonist Posted March 4, 2004 Posted March 4, 2004 [quote name='FX2' date='Mar 3 2004, 10:09 PM'] PETA probably thinks so [/quote] LOL!!! Thats funny. They probably do think that.
vianney Posted March 4, 2004 Posted March 4, 2004 Animals do to have souls according Aquinas. Just not the same souls humans have.
Spiritual_Arsonist Posted March 4, 2004 Posted March 4, 2004 [quote name='vianney' date='Mar 3 2004, 10:23 PM'] Animals do to have souls according Aquinas. Just not the same souls humans have. [/quote] What kind of souls?
hopeful1 Posted March 4, 2004 Posted March 4, 2004 well, i know animals don't have souls, so supposedly no. however i don't think it's outside the realm of impossibility, cuz hey it's God. Case in point (so you all won't label me a heretic! ) in heaven each of us will be happy but each of us at different levels ( i know that's not quite how i want to word that, please bear in mind i'm trying to pull this out of my head from sr. theology class back in high school, and it's been a few months!) but if what would make you truly happy is being with your favorite pet/s God might be able to make that happen. if not, well i try to look at it this way, maybe for those who really love their animals maybe it's God's way of showing them a taste of what heaven is like. just my .02
ironmonk Posted March 4, 2004 Posted March 4, 2004 Animals and plants do have souls... not all have eternal souls. For life to exist, it must have a spirit... that is the teaching of the Church. As for animals not having eternal souls, I don't think that there has been a infallible answer to the question. The reasoning behind previous thought that they do not have eternal souls is because they do not "have" higher intelligence. (as per ECF's) But... we know that some animals, such as chimps, and gorillas, can be taught sign language and talk to us with sign language - this proves higher thought. they can get a vocabulary of about 400 words. Also, some parrots have been taught to use symbols to communicate to us - hence higher thought. This is something that no one can possibly know for certain, so I don't think there will ever be an infallible teaching on it. Our concern should be that we are to treat animals with proper respect. We should not be cruel to them. [i]Respect for the integrity of creation[/i] 2415 The seventh commandment enjoins respect for the integrity of creation. Animals, like plants and inanimate beings, are by nature destined for the common good of past, present, and future humanity.195 Use of the mineral, vegetable, and animal resources of the universe cannot be divorced from respect for moral imperatives. Man's dominion over inanimate and other living beings granted by the Creator is not absolute; it is limited by concern for the quality of life of his neighbor, including generations to come; it requires a religious respect for the integrity of creation.196 2416 Animals are God's creatures. He surrounds them with his providential care. By their mere existence they bless him and give him glory.197 Thus men owe them kindness. We should recall the gentleness with which saints like St. Francis of Assisi or St. Philip Neri treated animals. 2417 God entrusted animals to the stewardship of those whom he created in his own image.198 Hence it is legitimate to use animals for food and clothing. They may be domesticated to help man in his work and leisure. Medical and scientific experimentation on animals is a morally acceptable practice if it remains within reasonable limits and contributes to caring for or saving human lives. 2418 It is contrary to human dignity to cause animals to suffer or die needlessly. It is likewise unworthy to spend money on them that should as a priority go to the relief of human misery. One can love animals; one should not direct to them the affection due only to persons. God Bless, ironmonk
vianney Posted March 4, 2004 Posted March 4, 2004 Yes they do have souls. Aquinas says all living things have souls. The animal soul is much different then that of a human. Plants also have souls but they are different from animal souls. The human soul contains all three aspects of plant and animal souls along with the ability to comprehend and love God. Which makes the human soul active and intelligent.
Spiritual_Arsonist Posted March 4, 2004 Posted March 4, 2004 I stand corrected: Animals do not have [i]eternal[/i] souls.
M.SIGGA Posted March 4, 2004 Posted March 4, 2004 I hope they do because I can't spend eternity without barbeque ribs
IXpenguin21 Posted March 4, 2004 Posted March 4, 2004 no no no no no there is no reason for animals to go to heaven. there is no divine likness in their being. they are not made in God's likeness, and do not need to be in comunion with Him. they have no salvation because they do not sin. their only purpose is to be creations of God. Through them, we can see parts of what God is, but not nearly as well as humans manafest this purpose (i.e. Fido and Fifi creating baby puppies like God creates baby people is more of a stretch than man and woman in the act of creating baby people in the sacrament of marriage in God's plan like God creates baby people in His plan. we see a shady image of this in the first example). Animals are serving their purpose and have no ability to reason, so they cannot act in error. Animals are purely beastial, and absolutly not spiritual. Angels are purely spiritual, and absolutly not beastial. Man is the perfect combination of the two. It's in the choosing of the spiritual over the beastial that allows us admitance into God's presence in heaven. Animals do not have this option and Angels choose to use their spirituality to either unite with God, or reject Him (fallen angels).
hopeful1 Posted March 4, 2004 Posted March 4, 2004 [quote name='ironmonk' date='Mar 3 2004, 10:41 PM'] Animals and plants do have souls... not all have eternal souls. For life to exist, it must have a spirit... that is the teaching of the Church. As for animals not having eternal souls, I don't think that there has been a infallible answer to the question. The reasoning behind previous thought that they do not have eternal souls is because they do not "have" higher intelligence. (as per ECF's) But... we know that some animals, such as chimps, and gorillas, can be taught sign language and talk to us with sign language - this proves higher thought. they can get a vocabulary of about 400 words. Also, some parrots have been taught to use symbols to communicate to us - hence higher thought. This is something that no one can possibly know for certain, so I don't think there will ever be an infallible teaching on it. Our concern should be that we are to treat animals with proper respect. We should not be cruel to them. [i]Respect for the integrity of creation[/i] 2415 The seventh commandment enjoins respect for the integrity of creation. Animals, like plants and inanimate beings, are by nature destined for the common good of past, present, and future humanity.195 Use of the mineral, vegetable, and animal resources of the universe cannot be divorced from respect for moral imperatives. Man's dominion over inanimate and other living beings granted by the Creator is not absolute; it is limited by concern for the quality of life of his neighbor, including generations to come; it requires a religious respect for the integrity of creation.196 2416 Animals are God's creatures. He surrounds them with his providential care. By their mere existence they bless him and give him glory.197 Thus men owe them kindness. We should recall the gentleness with which saints like St. Francis of Assisi or St. Philip Neri treated animals. 2417 God entrusted animals to the stewardship of those whom he created in his own image.198 Hence it is legitimate to use animals for food and clothing. They may be domesticated to help man in his work and leisure. Medical and scientific experimentation on animals is a morally acceptable practice if it remains within reasonable limits and contributes to caring for or saving human lives. 2418 It is contrary to human dignity to cause animals to suffer or die needlessly. It is likewise unworthy to spend money on them that should as a priority go to the relief of human misery. One can love animals; one should not direct to them the affection due only to persons. God Bless, ironmonk [/quote] once again, very well said Monk! you too IXpenguin21
hopeful1 Posted March 4, 2004 Posted March 4, 2004 on the other hand, it doesn't mean they're going to hell either
IXpenguin21 Posted March 4, 2004 Posted March 4, 2004 [quote name='M.SIGGA' date='Mar 3 2004, 10:51 PM'] I hope they do because I can't spend eternity without barbeque ribs [/quote] :rotfl: that's hilarious you get a fishslap
IXpenguin21 Posted March 4, 2004 Posted March 4, 2004 [quote name='hopeful1' date='Mar 3 2004, 11:31 PM'] on the other hand, it doesn't mean they're going to hell either [/quote] true. they don't have eternal souls, as was stated.
jmjtina Posted March 4, 2004 Posted March 4, 2004 God is a God of life, and yeah, animals don't have immortal souls, Christ didn't redeem animals on the cross, but God is Almighty and he can do anything He wants. I think there will be more life in heaven than here on earth. Besides, in heaven I won't be allergic to animals. [url="http://www.catholic.com/radio/calive.asp?date=12/1/2003"]Anthony DeSefano- Catholic Answers DEC 15 2003[/url] caller asked the same question Paladin. It's about 28 minutes into the program. check it out. :pc:
M.SIGGA Posted March 4, 2004 Posted March 4, 2004 [quote name='hopeful1' date='Mar 3 2004, 10:31 PM'] on the other hand, it doesn't mean they're going to hell either [/quote] what about roaches? I hate roaches
Adeodatus Posted March 4, 2004 Posted March 4, 2004 All animals have souls. That's why they're animals by definition, because each has an 'anima' (soul'). Non-rational animals do not have immaterial souls. Rational animals, humans, do have immaterial souls and these souls subsist after our death. At the resurrection on the last day, we get our bodies back in glorified form, and so our souls 'inform' bodies once again. The New Heavens and the New Earth at the end of time contain bodily human beings. If God makes "all things new" as Scripture says, then is it not possible that there will be plants and animals in the Kingdom of Heaven? After all, it isn't just a spiritual Kingdom but includes a new Earth with human beings in it. God does not regret making His creation, and the non-rational part of His creation (everything else apart from angels and humans) has NEVER ceased to glorify God by the very fact of their existence and being. God made them good, and He loves His creation, not as much as He loves us, but He still loves them. So I'd say it is possible that animals, vegetables and minerals may be part of the New Creation. And on another note, we know that the life of Heaven involves perfect happiness for us. If the perfection of our happiness requires the presence of the animals we have loved on this Earth, then it follows that animals will be in Heaven. God will supply all the good things He made for our delight, so that they continue to delight us and evoke from us even greater praise of God. Personally, I have doubted that animals go to Heaven. But to make a Thomistic distinction, while I can't see how animals "go" to heaven (because they haven't got immaterial souls that survive their death), I can't deny that animals won't "be" in heaven (God might just put them there, I don't know.) At the heart of this is the fact that our God just loves matter. he's a pure spirit, but He loves matter, because He made this whole universe and us in it. And He doesn't let matter go, so even the Son takes up His body again after His death, and glorifies it. His own body is of course far more precious than a brute animal, but the latter is still loved by God into existence and held by God in existence. What thinkest ye all?
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