frozencell Posted March 4, 2004 Posted March 4, 2004 [quote name='hopeful1' date='Mar 3 2004, 10:28 PM'] well, i know animals don't have souls, so supposedly no. however i don't think it's outside the realm of impossibility, cuz hey it's God. Case in point (so you all won't label me a heretic! ) in heaven each of us will be happy but each of us at different levels ( i know that's not quite how i want to word that, please bear in mind i'm trying to pull this out of my head from sr. theology class back in high school, and it's been a few months!) but if what would make you truly happy is being with your favorite pet/s God might be able to make that happen. if not, well i try to look at it this way, maybe for those who really love their animals maybe it's God's way of showing them a taste of what heaven is like. just my .02 [/quote] Interesting, but we must also think of this.... Whenw e die and go to heaven all the things we've been dying to know are going to be common knowledge and no big deal anymore. I think that this applies to other things, too. The things of this world will not be of so much concern for us and not mean as much to us (i.e. pets, cars, houses, possessions). We will be awed by the presence of God and Spot will not be our most wonderfulest wittle favoritest thing anymore. Just my .02.
Norseman82 Posted March 4, 2004 Posted March 4, 2004 Well, in Genesis 9, the covenant God established with Noah included the animals, and He would demand an accounting from the animals, too. So, I will just say a "definite maybe". Also, a day before one of my dogs died, the image of him nuzzling Jesus' hand popped into my head when I was praying after confession.
cmotherofpirl Posted March 4, 2004 Posted March 4, 2004 I know all the arguments against it, but honestly, can you imagine St Francis without his wolf or the birds he preached to. Read C.S Lewis's [i]Great Divorce[/i] about a Saint walking with all the childen and animals she loved. They were sanctified by her love which was the love she recieved from God. Sounds pretty reasonable to me.
Adeodatus Posted March 4, 2004 Posted March 4, 2004 It just occured to me! There ARE animals in heaven!!! OTHER animals, i.e. other humans. So if there can be other animals in heaven besides me, without distracting me from the beatific vision, then it remains theoretically possible that there can be non-rational animals (and vegetables and minerals) in heaven too. Or think about it this way: if the saints, who enjoy the beatific vision already, can still take an interest in us on earth and intercede for us, then when we're all in heaven we can all enjoy the beatific vision and [b]still[/b] delight in each other. God will not be competing with our friends for our attention. He is the source of our bliss, but because He loves us and delights in us, He wills us to love and delight in each other. And by extending this idea, we can speak about our loving and delighting in the other kinds of animals God made besides humans.
p0lar_bear Posted March 4, 2004 Posted March 4, 2004 I don't remember where it was, but St. Thomas Aquinas supposedly once responded to a question on this. A woman asked him if her dog would be in heaven, and he responded "if you need him."
Dave Posted March 4, 2004 Posted March 4, 2004 Animals don't have immortal souls, but there's no reason why God couldn't recreate our pets for us to be ready for us when we die. I mean, no one has ever gone to heaven and then come back and told us all about it. God is God, and He can do whatever He wants.
Aloysius Posted March 4, 2004 Posted March 4, 2004 only humans are created in the image and likeness of God, only humans are self aware. the only reason an animal would be in heaven is for a human's sake. they do not have immortal souls, so when they die they normatively die. but if an immortal soul loves them they lift their state up and possibly carry that mortal soul into eternity with them.
the_rev Posted March 5, 2004 Posted March 5, 2004 I remember reading an article where they said Animals will go to heaven, because of some biblical verse, "When we all die, we will be among the beasts in heaven." I can't seem to find the verse, But i'll keep looking!
ironmonk Posted March 5, 2004 Posted March 5, 2004 [quote name='Aloysius' date='Mar 4 2004, 07:07 PM'] only humans are created in the image and likeness of God, only humans are self aware. the only reason an animal would be in heaven is for a human's sake. they do not have immortal souls, so when they die they normatively die. but if an immortal soul loves them they lift their state up and possibly carry that mortal soul into eternity with them. [/quote] There is no infallible statement on this, and unless Mary or Jesus told a Saint, then this arguement is pointless. [quote]only humans are self aware[/quote] This is wrong. Many animals are self aware and have vocabularies of about 400 words... about the mentality of a three year old. Corilla's, Chimps, etc... They've been taught sign language and communicate very nicely. There is nothing that the Church teaches dogmatically on the topic. When they do, then I'll agree with it.... but no one can know unless there is a dogmatic statement or Mary or Christ told someone like Saint Pio, Saint Francis, etc... God Bless, ironmonk
Aloysius Posted March 5, 2004 Posted March 5, 2004 i'm relying on the Bible..... the infallible word of God according to the Church it says God created man in His image and likeness, and God created animals for the sake of man. ok, i meant to say that only humans are aware and think of their own mortality. animals do not sit and ponder what happens after they die. i never claimed there was an infallible statement so there was no need to refute such a claim. am i not allowed to believe my above statement? am i not allowed to proclaim it to others? there's no infallible statement either way, that doesn't mean we don't talk about it and assume IronMonk is correct. the Bible says He created man in His image and likeness. He did not create animals in His image and likeness unless you have some infallible statement that says He did. animals were created for the sake of humans. that is why i believe animals will only be in heaven for the sake of humans.
ironmonk Posted March 6, 2004 Posted March 6, 2004 [quote name='Aloysius' date='Mar 5 2004, 06:34 PM'] i'm relying on the Bible..... the infallible word of God according to the Church it says God created man in His image and likeness, and God created animals for the sake of man. ok, i meant to say that only humans are aware and think of their own mortality. animals do not sit and ponder what happens after they die. i never claimed there was an infallible statement so there was no need to refute such a claim. am i not allowed to believe my above statement? am i not allowed to proclaim it to others? there's no infallible statement either way, that doesn't mean we don't talk about it and assume IronMonk is correct. the Bible says He created man in His image and likeness. He did not create animals in His image and likeness unless you have some infallible statement that says He did. animals were created for the sake of humans. that is why i believe animals will only be in heaven for the sake of humans. [/quote] Creating man in God's likeness does not equate to animals not having souls. The bible does not state that Angels were created in God's likeness yet they are eternal. It could be either way. Some ECF's used the premise that animals did not have higher thinking to say that they do not have souls. Well, they have higher thinking... we do not know if they can think of their own mortallity.... no animal wants to die... the animals did not eat of the tree of knowledge... we did. We did not know that we were naked and did not think about death until after eating of the forbidden fruit. Using the "thinking of mortality" to justify who has a soul could be used justify infantcide. Maybe animals have souls, maybe they don't... point being... if God wanted to give animals souls, He could have... we don't know. We will never know until we die and go to Heaven.... The topic is pointless to argue because there can NEVER in our lifetime be an end to it. God Bless, ironmonk
Aloysius Posted March 6, 2004 Posted March 6, 2004 blah. whatever. i don't deny they have souls, just not immortal souls. in any case, we know that animals were created for man's sake. we know that human life has more value than animal life. everything else is irrelevant. but i believe that if animal souls go to heaven it is for the sake of humans.
nikkan_hanil Posted March 6, 2004 Posted March 6, 2004 Makes you wonder about those birds St. Francis preached to, eh?
Craftygrl06 Posted March 23, 2004 Posted March 23, 2004 WOW tough question You know i've been thinking about this issue lately, ever since i heard Jack van impe talk about it on his sunday morning show he his thought was taht Animals will be in heaven. I'm inclined to think the same thing. Though i'm not exactly sure how to reason it, the Church teaches that all God's creations are good because they are from God, so animals were created by God he must have some affinity for them. I mean i don't think every Dog that ever existed will exist in heaven, but you know animals obviously have some purpose in God's big plan. A priest i know has a dog who goes to the office with him and has been like a therapy dog for people who come to him in distress. Do you think that's God working though that dog to bring someone comfort or peace? something to think about. on a different topic. i just wanted to say that I LOVE THIS PHORUM it's lovely the people here have really great intelligent things to say in the most civil of manners. keep it up!
Paladin D Posted March 23, 2004 Author Posted March 23, 2004 [quote name='Craftygrl06' date='Mar 22 2004, 11:17 PM'] WOW tough question You know i've been thinking about this issue lately, ever since i heard Jack van impe talk about it on his sunday morning show he his thought was taht Animals will be in heaven. I'm inclined to think the same thing. Though i'm not exactly sure how to reason it, the Church teaches that all God's creations are good because they are from God, so animals were created by God he must have some affinity for them. I mean i don't think every Dog that ever existed will exist in heaven, but you know animals obviously have some purpose in God's big plan. A priest i know has a dog who goes to the office with him and has been like a therapy dog for people who come to him in distress. Do you think that's God working though that dog to bring someone comfort or peace? something to think about. on a different topic. i just wanted to say that I LOVE THIS PHORUM it's lovely the people here have really great intelligent things to say in the most civil of manners. keep it up! [/quote] Welcome to the board!
DAF Posted July 6, 2006 Posted July 6, 2006 [quote]in heaven each of us will be happy but each of us at different levels but if what would make you truly happy is being with your favorite pet/s God might be able to make that happen[/quote] But pets aren't what make us truly happy. The beatific vision will be our only occupation in heaven, we wont have time nor the will to think about how cute our idiot dogwas.
hierochloe Posted July 6, 2006 Posted July 6, 2006 WOW how coincidental. I was thinking on this the other day while walking through a greenbelt to get a Wendy's frosty (mmmmmm). There were all kinds of birds and rabbits and all sorts of critters and plants thriving in this tiny wetland corridor in the middle of an urban area. I have to admit the last person I expected to be open to the possibilty of animals having eternal souls would be IM! Cool. Isn't it the case that humans are eventually united with physical bodies once again? I forget. It is appealing to me to think that other lifeforms gain some reward for their service to God, through their service to humans if you will. Yes, I'm somewhat of a carebear that way - BUT, I do LUV mah ribs! :
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