Apotheoun Posted August 18, 2008 Share Posted August 18, 2008 It is important that we not confuse Catholicity with uniformity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
picchick Posted August 18, 2008 Share Posted August 18, 2008 [quote name='Apotheoun' post='1630216' date='Aug 17 2008, 11:18 PM']It is important that we not confuse Catholicity with uniformity.[/quote] Did I do that? I am sorry if I did. I am sorry, can you explain the difference? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apotheoun Posted August 18, 2008 Share Posted August 18, 2008 (edited) [quote name='picchick' post='1630220' date='Aug 17 2008, 09:22 PM'] Did I do that? I am sorry if I did.[/quote] No, you didn't do that, but some people want to say that the particular traditions of the Latin Church are universal, and that they should be adopted by all 23 of the Churches that form the one Catholic Church. [quote name='picchick' post='1630220' date='Aug 17 2008, 09:22 PM']I am sorry, can you explain the difference?[/quote] Catholicity (i.e., what is also called "Sobornicity" in the Slavic Eastern Churches) by its very nature implies multiplicity in unity. Therefore, just as the tri-hypostatic God is one and three at the same time; so too the Church is one and many at the same time. Those who advocate uniformity of rites and usages in the Church could in some sense be called "ecclesiological Sabellians." Edited August 18, 2008 by Apotheoun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
picchick Posted August 18, 2008 Share Posted August 18, 2008 [quote name='Apotheoun' post='1630226' date='Aug 17 2008, 11:26 PM']Catholicity (i.e., what is also called "Sobornicity" in the Slavic Eastern Churches) by its very nature implies multiplicity in unity. Just as the tri-hypostatic God is one and three at the same time; so too the Church is one and many at the same time.[/quote] Ahhh, ok. Thanks. One thing I really like about the Eastern Divine Liturgy is the fact that we have so many references to Mary. Also, I like how we are constantly giving God praise. I just love it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apotheoun Posted August 18, 2008 Share Posted August 18, 2008 [quote name='picchick' post='1630228' date='Aug 17 2008, 09:28 PM']Ahhh, ok. Thanks. One thing I really like about the Eastern Divine Liturgy is the fact that we have so many references to Mary. Also, I like how we are constantly giving God praise. I just love it.[/quote] Through the prayers of the Theotokos, O Savior save us! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mortify Posted August 18, 2008 Share Posted August 18, 2008 [quote name='picchick' post='1630210' date='Aug 17 2008, 11:13 PM']Um...In my humble opinion I have seen the exact opposite. I have seen that people in the Latin rite are arrogant and proud. The attitude of the Eastern Catholics in my area is that they are a part of the Church. Not a better part but a part. However, to go along with your last statement, it is the Latin Rite goers who have the holier than thou attitude. Not all but a majority.[/quote] My experience is different. [quote]The Eastern Catholic Church is in communion with the Pope. Eastern ORTHODOX is not.[/quote] No one denied this. [quote]I love every rite of the Church. I think that we NEED to learn about each other. It is necessary. Totally necessary.[/quote] Considering the current situation in the Roman rite, this is not my priority. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mortify Posted August 18, 2008 Share Posted August 18, 2008 (edited) [quote name='Apotheoun' post='1630226' date='Aug 17 2008, 11:26 PM']No, you didn't do that, but some people want to say that the particular traditions of the Latin Church are universal, and that they should be adopted by all 23 of the Churches that form the one Catholic Church.[/quote] I did not mean to suggest that every particular church should become identical with the Roman rite, just that there is nothing wrong with eastern churches naturally adopting certain Latin customs, or the Roman church trying to establish some uniformity. The East really only need to accept the Dogmatta proclaimed by the Catholic Church. Edited August 18, 2008 by mortify Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeresaBenedicta Posted August 18, 2008 Share Posted August 18, 2008 [quote name='mortify' post='1630249' date='Aug 17 2008, 11:53 PM']The East really only need to accept the Dogmatta proclaimed by the Catholic Church.[/quote] I'm not sure what dogma's aren't accepted by the East? I mean... they are in union with the Pope.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted August 18, 2008 Share Posted August 18, 2008 That thign you posted about icons was amazing! I had no idea... I'm stunned and awed. Literally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mortify Posted August 18, 2008 Share Posted August 18, 2008 [quote name='TeresaBenedicta' post='1630256' date='Aug 18 2008, 12:05 AM']I'm not sure what dogma's aren't accepted by the East? I mean... they are in union with the Pope....[/quote] I'm referring to the Orthodox. In particular the Filioque, Papal primacy of jurisdiction, the Immaculate Conception, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
picchick Posted August 18, 2008 Share Posted August 18, 2008 [quote name='mortify' post='1630263' date='Aug 18 2008, 12:08 AM']I'm referring to the Orthodox. In particular the Filioque, Papal primacy of jurisdiction, the Immaculate Conception, etc.[/quote] Oh, ok, it sounded like you were referring to the whole East. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeresaBenedicta Posted August 18, 2008 Share Posted August 18, 2008 [quote name='mortify' post='1630263' date='Aug 18 2008, 12:08 AM']I'm referring to the Orthodox. In particular the Filioque, Papal primacy of jurisdiction, the Immaculate Conception, etc.[/quote] Okay. So, I'm confused when you're making statements about 'the East', then. Do you think the Eastern Rites need to accept more Latinization? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mortify Posted August 18, 2008 Share Posted August 18, 2008 [quote name='TeresaBenedicta' post='1630270' date='Aug 18 2008, 12:14 AM']Okay. So, I'm confused when you're making statements about 'the East', then. Do you think the Eastern Rites need to accept more Latinization?[/quote] Teresa, I just don't find "Latinization" to be a bad thing. There's nothing bad about Eastern Catholics adopting some Latin customs or the Pope wanting to establish *some* uniformity. This doesn't mean that the Eastern rites should accept more Latinization, it's something that should occur naturally unless the Church deems it necessary to initiate on its own accord. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qfnol31 Posted August 18, 2008 Share Posted August 18, 2008 You have to be careful how far you take such reasoning...Otherwise I could say that too much Greek theology influenced Western Christology and so I can and probably should reject all Eastern Christology because it isn't Latin... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abercius24 Posted August 18, 2008 Share Posted August 18, 2008 [quote name='mortify' post='1629998' date='Aug 17 2008, 07:24 PM']We have already abandoned most of our traditions, we are more vulnerable than ever. The East is too proud of its ways to ever completely abandon their traditions.[/quote] The threat we face is from the influences of materialism, not the Eastern Rite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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