Pray For Jpii In Purgatory

[KnightofChrist]

Should we as Catholics pray for the soul of John Paul II in Purgatory? Or not and assume he is already in heaven?

Edited August 17, 2008 by KnightofChrist

[Selah]

I have no idea....I think it would be a good idea to pray for his soul.

[KnightofChrist]

So do I, the question has been on my mind because all the talk that JPII is a defacto Saint. Or it's just a matter of time talk, which would lead one to believe there would be little need to pray for a Saint.

[BG45]

[quote name='Selah' post='1629226' date='Aug 16 2008, 10:26 PM']I have no idea....I think it would be a good idea to pray for his soul. [/quote]


Ditto.

[CatherineM]

There's a line in the Shoes of the Fisherman about the deceased Pope. He says that the Pope will received seven days of masses and seven absolutions because as a greater man, he may have more need of them. I got to read a letter that John Paul had written to my Archbishop once. They became friends as the two youngest bishops at Vatican II. He said he had been in trouble again with his confessor because he'd been sharp with someone he'd caught smoking. He was human after all.

I personally believe he spent his time in Purgatory while on Earth. His public mortification caused by his disease and the grace and humility he showed enduring it, inspired many. I think he will be named a saint in short order, but it never hurts to pray for someone's soul. Even the ones who are already in heaven should appreciate being remembered.

[MissyP89]

Until the Church says otherwise, we should err on the side of caution and pray for his soul. Goodness knows it'll never go to waste!

[MissScripture]

[quote name='MissyP89' post='1629261' date='Aug 16 2008, 10:14 PM']Until the Church says otherwise, we should err on the side of caution and pray for his soul. Goodness knows it'll never go to waste![/quote]
Exactly. If he doesn't need them, they'll go to someone who does!

[Deb]

One of the Medjugorje visionaries saw Papa with Mary and that is how they knew he was dead. I think he went straight to the arms of our Lord.
I pray for all souls in purgatory and especially those who have no one praying for them and for all religious so he is covered.

[XIX]

[quote name='KnightofChrist' post='1629230' date='Aug 16 2008, 10:31 PM']So do I, the question has been on my mind because all the talk that JPII is a defacto Saint. Or it's just a matter of time talk, which would lead one to believe there would be little need to pray for a Saint.[/quote]
Even if it is a matter of time, that does not diminish our need to pray for his soul.

[Nihil Obstat]

I like to pray to the previous Holy Father as if he were a saint already... but I've stipulated before in my prayers that if he happens to not be a saint yet, that I'm praying for his soul in purgatory instead.
I'm sure God understands.

[KnightofChrist]

[quote name='XIX' post='1629332' date='Aug 16 2008, 10:17 PM']Even if it is a matter of time, that does not diminish our need to pray for his soul.[/quote]

I agree. Whether his soul is in purgatory or heaven changes the type of prayer needed. If he is in purgatory we ought pray for his soul to lesser his 'time' there, which is pain with love. If he is in heaven we could ask him to pray for us.

If he is in purgatory and we assume he is in heaven, do we do a disservice to the process of the perfection of his soul?

[Nihil Obstat]

[quote name='KnightofChrist' post='1629404' date='Aug 16 2008, 11:08 PM']If he is in purgatory and we assume he is in heaven, do we do a disservice to the process of the perfection of his soul?[/quote]
Just off the top of my head... I'd say no, not really. Maybe not ideal, but honestly, I can't see it hurting in any way. I think God sorts out prayers like that. He knows the intent and the belief. I can't see that going wrong in any way.

Edited August 17, 2008 by Nihil Obstat

[MissScripture]

[quote name='KnightofChrist' post='1629404' date='Aug 17 2008, 12:08 AM']I agree. Whether his soul is in purgatory or heaven changes the type of prayer needed. If he is in purgatory we ought pray for his soul to lesser his 'time' there, which is pain with love. If he is in heaven we could ask him to pray for us.

If he is in purgatory and we assume he is in heaven, do we do a disservice to the process of the perfection of his soul?[/quote]
I thought when people were in purgatory, they could pray for anyone but themselves, so couldn't he still pray for us, even if he was still in purgatory?

[Cam42]

We ought to pray for his soul. Reason being this. The only persons that we know, for certain, to be in heaven are the Saints. Now, with that being said, we should pray for him until such time as we know that he is in heaven (ie. canonization) or we ourselves pass away. Then we will know.

Caveat: Once he is canonized (assuming he will be), we should then begin to pray for him to intercede. So, praying for, with, and/or to him is a good idea at any rate and level.

[Madame Vengier]

[quote name='KnightofChrist' post='1629225' date='Aug 16 2008, 08:23 PM']Should we as Catholics pray for the soul of John Paul II in Purgatory? Or not and assume he is already in heaven?[/quote]

There's nothing to assume. The Church has already recognized his first miracle which is necessary to advance his cause. That miracle and the advancement of the Cause are what the Church considers proof that a saint is indeed in Heavenly glory with God.

And I'm not praying for his soul in purgatory. I'm absolutely convinced he isn't there.

Edited August 17, 2008 by Madame Vengier

[Cam42]

[quote name='Madame Vengier' post='1629731' date='Aug 17 2008, 01:40 PM']There's nothing to assume. The Church has already recognized his first miracle which is necessary to advance his cause. That miracle and the advancement of the Cause are what the Church considers proof that a saint is indeed in Heavenly glory with God.

And I'm not praying for his soul in purgatory. I'm absolutely convinced he isn't there.[/quote]


Just because the Church has recognized a miracle does NOT mean that the person in question is in heaven. There is a reason for such strict criteria, is to be a humanly certain as possible.

However, the Church does not prohibit you or anyone from the belief that you hold, but you cannot hold with any public certainty of your view, it is simply a personal view. So, continue to believe that if you wish, you are entitled, but the Church doesn't recognize him as being in heaven, so it is quite proper and correct to assume that he is not in heaven.

Thanks and keep praying for him, he needs all the prayers we can give him.

[add]

I’ve got to believe JP2 got past “Purgatory”, as he lived his life on earth in full, as a good (actually none better, which I personally know of in our lifetime) man.

[KnightofChrist]

Plenty of good people go to purgatory, in fact all people in purgatory are good, if they where evil or bad wouldnt they go to hell? The thought that JPII is a defacto Saint, or already in heaven has no rock to stand on, and the chances are very great that he is indeed in purgatory. And needs our prayers to lessen his pain and 'time' there.

The type of prayer for JPII makes a difference. If one prays for JPII's intercession they ask for his help. But if we pray for his soul in purgatory we are asking God to lessen his pain and 'time' in purgatory. The two are very different with very different intentions.

[Madame Vengier]

[quote name='KnightofChrist' post='1630020' date='Aug 17 2008, 07:40 PM']Plenty of good people go to purgatory, in fact all people in purgatory are good, if they where evil or bad wouldnt they go to hell? The thought that JPII is a defacto Saint, or already in heaven has no rock to stand on, and the chances are very great that he is indeed in purgatory. And needs our prayers to lessen his pain and 'time' there.[/quote]

KOC, no one said anything about defacto. The miracle that the Church requires has occurred and has been approved. Why are we talking about this???

[Madame Vengier]

[quote name='Cam42' post='1629772' date='Aug 17 2008, 03:10 PM']so it is quite proper and correct to assume that he is not in heaven.[/quote]

Words fail.