John Kerry

[frozencell]

I definitely side with the Republican party because so many issues with the Democrats just plain don't make ANY sense. Abortion is not right under any circumstances and voting for a candidate who thinks it should be legal everywhere is not a godly thing to do. And the idea that I would be forced to pay for someone to have an abortion in a DIFFERENT COUNTRY really burns me up! I don't like being forced to support a lot of things in THIS country, why would I support these things in some other one?!?!

Also, why is it such a concern that countless millions MIGHT die from nuclear war and not such a big deal (in comparision) that the same number ACTUALLY die everyday in the name of convenience and privacy. It's amazing how some people can be so much more concerned with the lives of people who have already been born than those who haven't even had the chance yet. When treaties and diplomatic problems become the fore-running issue over life and death legislation it's time to re-evaluate some priorities. Remember that a key character trait in a lot of saints of the Church was selflessness and giving. Many saints put themselves in harm's way to save those who were innocent and being discriminated against. Saint Maximillian gave his life for another in a Nazi prison camp. I'll suffer through some more of this world if it means that there is the chance of bringing into this world someone with the potential to become a mighty force for God in this country and world.

There are some things that I feel that Bush could be better or more solid on and things that I don't agree with the Republican party, but these are so menial compared to the problems with Kerry and other liberals that it's never enough to sway my vote. I am in the Air Force and it is so surprising to me how many people are against this war. Everyone I work with supports it. Everyone I work with volunteers to go overseas. Very few people that I have met in the military think it's wrong, and even less are vehement about it. It's amazing how so many more people who have no idea how the military life is or never have to be in the "hot seat" for deployment get so vehemently opposed to the war. The fact that the military personnel, for the most part, are so for this war should go a long way to show those civilians that Bush has to be doing something right.

We must weigh the "evils" of both sides and pick the lesser, and right now it seems that Bush has the MUCH lesser evil going for him.

Edited March 5, 2004 by frozencell

[marielapin]

[quote name='frozencell' date='Mar 5 2004, 10:10 AM'] I definitely side with the Republican party because so many issues with the Democrats just plain don't make ANY sense. Abortion is not right under any circumstances and voting for a candidate who thinks it should be legal everywhere is not a godly thing to do. And the idea that I would be forced to pay for someone to have an abortion in a DIFFERENT COUNTRY really burns me up! I don't like being forced to support a lot of things in THIS country, why would I support these things in some other one?!?!

Also, why is it such a concern that countless millions MIGHT die from nuclear war and not such a big deal (in comparision) that the same number ACTUALLY die everyday in the name of convenience and privacy. It's amazing how some people can be so much more concerned with the lives of people who have already been born than those who haven't even had the chance yet. When treaties and diplomatic problems become the fore-running issue over life and death legislation it's time to re-evaluate some priorities. Remember that a key character trait in a lot of saints of the Church was selflessness and giving. Many saints put themselves in harm's way to save those who were innocent and being discriminated against. Saint Maximillian gave his life for another in a Nazi prison camp. I'll suffer through some more of this world if it means that there is the chance of bringing into this world someone with the potential to become a mighty force for God in this country and world.

There are some things that I feel that Bush could be better or more solid on and things that I don't agree with the Republican party, but these are so menial compared to the problems with Kerry and other liberals that it's never enough to sway my vote. I am in the Air Force and it is so surprising to me how many people are against this war. Everyone I work with supports it. Everyone I work with volunteers to go overseas. Very few people that I have met in the military think it's wrong, and even less are vehement about it. It's amazing how so many more people who have no idea how the military life is or never have to be in the "hot seat" for deployment get so vehemently opposed to the war. The fact that the military personnel, for the most part, are so for this war should go a long way to show those civilians that Bush has to be doing something right.

We must weigh the "evils" of both sides and pick the lesser, and right now it seems that Bush has the MUCH lesser evil going for him. [/quote]
DITTO.

Everyone I know supports this war too. I met an Army guy a few weeks ago who was here on two week vacation from Iraq and he could not believe what lies were being spread back here by the liberal media - misrepresenting the truth of the good that is being done there everyday by people like him.

[frozencell]

[quote name='marielapin' date='Mar 5 2004, 10:47 AM'] DITTO.

Everyone I know supports this war too. I met an Army guy a few weeks ago who was here on two week vacation from Iraq and he could not believe what lies were being spread back here by the liberal media - misrepresenting the truth of the good that is being done there everyday by people like him. [/quote]
Thank you for that. I can't help but think that if we had a Democratic president right now and in this situation (completely hypothetical!) the media would be lauding him for his good judgment and praising the effort and pushing nothing but the upside.

[marielapin]

[quote name='frozencell' date='Mar 5 2004, 10:53 AM'] Thank you for that. I can't help but think that if we had a Democratic president right now and in this situation (completely hypothetical!) the media would be lauding him for his good judgment and praising the effort and pushing nothing but the upside. [/quote]
You notice the same people who are bashing Bush for his policies on this war didn't say anything when Clinton sent troops to Kosovo.

The fact that Kerry voted in support of these wars and is now trying to use them against Bush is the biggest bunch of bull carp I've ever heard. Any man who comes back from a war, throws his (they really weren't his) war medals over the fence and then years later proudly displays them in his office is very low in my estimation.

[Kilroy the Ninja]

hmmm

John Kerry.

Yeah, whatever.

You know, I was alive when he came back from Vietnam but I wasn't keeping up with the news at the time.

But my mother-in-law was.

And she remembers John Kerry getting up and denouncing the war he had just come back from. And that's all fine and good if not terribly patriotic.

But she also remembers him admitting to the slaughter of entire Vietnamese villages, men, women, children - and not necessarily on the orders of anyone in particular. Now, before ya'll liberals go jumpin' off the deep end, I'll do a little more research on that. But let me tell you this first. My mother-in-law is one of the only people I know that would probably be considered a saint if she were to die today. She has been a highly respected and loved Catholic school teacher for the last 26 years. I doubt she'd be making this up. Or mis-remembering.

funny how you don't hear about that in the evening news.

[M.SIGGA]

[quote name='marielapin' date='Mar 5 2004, 09:59 AM'] You notice the same people who are bashing Bush for his policies on this war didn't say anything when Clinton sent troops to Kosovo.

The fact that Kerry voted in support of these wars and is now trying to use them against Bush is the biggest bunch of bull carp I've ever heard. Any man who comes back from a war, throws his (they really weren't his) war medals over the fence and then years later proudly displays them in his office is very low in my estimation. [/quote]
maybe global support and U.N. approval and 100% factual just cause (not disappearing WMDs) had something to do with it...

[marielapin]

[quote name='M.SIGGA' date='Mar 5 2004, 12:17 PM'] maybe global support and U.N. approval and 100% factual just cause (not disappearing WMDs) had something to do with it... [/quote]
I'm assuming you mean the first part of my comment.

But if one feels that the United Nations should have full control over the movement of our troops, then Kerry is the person to vote for.

This whole disappearing WMDs thing is really getting old. There are several options as to why they are not there:

1-we bombed them to kingdom come
2-they were moved to other countries before the war began

I for one would like to wait a little bit longer before assuming they did not exist. After all, even Kerry believed they were there before the war started.

[marielapin]

[quote name='Kilroy the Ninja' date='Mar 5 2004, 11:32 AM'] hmmm

John Kerry.

Yeah, whatever.

You know, I was alive when he came back from Vietnam but I wasn't keeping up with the news at the time.

But my mother-in-law was.

And she remembers John Kerry getting up and denouncing the war he had just come back from. And that's all fine and good if not terribly patriotic.

But she also remembers him admitting to the slaughter of entire Vietnamese villages, men, women, children - and not necessarily on the orders of anyone in particular. Now, before ya'll liberals go jumpin' off the deep end, I'll do a little more research on that. But let me tell you this first. My mother-in-law is one of the only people I know that would probably be considered a saint if she were to die today. She has been a highly respected and loved Catholic school teacher for the last 26 years. I doubt she'd be making this up. Or mis-remembering.

funny how you don't hear about that in the evening news. [/quote]
[They - soldiers during the Vietnam war] personally raped, cut off ears, cut off heads, taped wires from portable telephones to human genitals and turned up the power, cut off limbs, [blew] up bodies, randomly shot at civilians, razed villages in fashion reminiscent of Ghengis Khan, shot cattle and dogs for fun, poisoned food stocks, and generally ravaged the countryside of South Vietnam ... (John Kerry, April 23, 1971)

Nothing – not politics, not time, not outcome – nothing will ever diminish one iota the contributions of these brothers and sisters, nothing can ever lessen the courage with which they waged war. Nothing reduces the magnitude of their sacrifice, nothing can take away the quality of their gift to their nation. (John Kerry, June 11, 2002)

whatever.

[Iacobus]

About the Veitnam issue. Kerry was testifing about the Mila (misspelled) Massacare along with MANY other returning vets. Vietnam was not a good time in our past.

When in went into Kosovo it was with NATO support (it wasn't just the US and the UK going in) and also the Kosovo conflict NEVER had us insert ground troops.

I am also concerned about handing over control of Iraq in June. With the attacks that occured on Wed can they really be capable of self-rule and self-policing this ealiar.

The few people I know who came back from Iraq had every negtive views on what was happening. The one I have seen the most came home early becasue of a blockage in his aotate (misspelled). He was sent over to Kuwait a year ago last month. He is a reseverist medic. His unit was sent in and took a postion in the Sunny Triangle. They were shelled every nite by atleast 3 rounds. The ROE prohibited them from returning fire. His unit will still be there until at least July 04. And these are not active duty troops but reseverist meant to hold up the army till it can hold its own or respond to issues in the US.

What I am saying is that we need to end abortion but we also need to make the world a safer place for the children and we need to do it at the same time. Right now neither party seems too intreseted in doing that.

[marielapin]

[quote name='Iacobus' date='Mar 5 2004, 12:48 PM'] What I am saying is that we need to end abortion but we also need to make the world a safer place for the children and we need to do it at the same time. Right now neither party seems too intreseted in doing that. [/quote]
This is true. I don't think anyone here would argue that, no matter what their political affiliation is.

But the only way I can see of qualifying which is more important is by numbers.

And abortion wins out on numbers.

[Iacobus]

The majority of the men and women who served in Vietname gave a great gift to the US. However, the war was NOT a good war. There were massacres and other issues in the war. But we can't cheapen what the enlisties did during the war. *John Kerry, April 23, 1971* that qoute is about what happened at the Mila Massacre. Basicly what happened is the unit opened fire on a town and killed every liveing thing in the village they could find.

[Kilroy the Ninja]

Yes, but wasn't John Kerry one of the officers in charge of that little shin-dig? Do some checking....

[Iacobus]

I know that Kerry was the captain of one of the swift boats. I thought the shin-dig was an army issue, commited by the army. I am not 100% sure though, link me to some fair info and I am open to change. I myself will look for some on what was the extact extent of Kerry's involement.

[jmjtina]

Kerry is Pro-Murder, advocates abortion, so he doesn't get my vote.

I think a President who is willing to advocate killing in the womb is just pure evil. May God have Mercy on Us and on the whole world.

[Iacobus]

Kilroy,

[url="http://www.motherjones.com/news/update/2004/02/02_400.html"]Mother Jones Comperes Armed Forces Records[/url]

[url="http://www.axisoflogic.com/artman/publish/printer_4800.shtml"]Vietnam Veterans Against the War Statement by John Kerry to the Senate Committee of Foreign Relations, April 23, 1971 (the whole thing)[/url]

[url="http://slate.msn.com/id/2087554/"]Slate's The Worst of John Kerry: A troubling tale from his past. Is it true?[/url]

Most of the other stuff I found was repeats of Kerry's record during Vietnam or quotes from his statement to the Senate Committee of Foreign Relations. I found not find anything connecting him to the massacre as an active player. God Bless.

[jmjtina]

He's an active player in the ongoing massacre of innocent unborn children through abortion.

That's enough for me.

[Iacobus]

I am not saying Kerry is the best person to ever run for the office. I just like him more than I like Bush. The fact that we undergo almost 1 abortion for every 2 people alive in the US (puke, why is that number so high). We need to fix the problem.

Regan and Bush (W. H.) both had the law that Kerry states that he will remove in effect during thier terms. The number of abortions in the US per year peaked under the 1st Bush and DECLINED under Bill Clinton by 163,200 abortions per year during his 1st term. This is with the pro-abortion rules.

0.46 abortions per person in Mass. in 1996
0.44 abortions per person in TX in 1996

Not a great stat different between the state in which Bush was governer and the State in which Kerry was senator.

But don't take my facts as true, check them, I used [url="http://www.abortiontv.com/AbortionStatistics.htm#United%20States"]www.abortiontv.com for the numbers on abortions per year[/url] and [url="http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0004986.html"]InfoPlease for the number of people living in each state.[/url]

[frozencell]

[quote name='Iacobus' date='Mar 6 2004, 12:11 AM'] Kilroy,

[url="http://www.motherjones.com/news/update/2004/02/02_400.html"]Mother Jones Comperes Armed Forces Records[/url]

[url="http://www.axisoflogic.com/artman/publish/printer_4800.shtml"]Vietnam Veterans Against the War Statement by John Kerry to the Senate Committee of Foreign Relations, April 23, 1971 (the whole thing)[/url]

[url="http://slate.msn.com/id/2087554/"]Slate's The Worst of John Kerry: A troubling tale from his past. Is it true?[/url]

Most of the other stuff I found was repeats of Kerry's record during Vietnam or quotes from his statement to the Senate Committee of Foreign Relations. I found not find anything connecting him to the massacre as an active player. God Bless. [/quote]
To say that I am disappointed in you is an understatement. It took you one post to go from asking for fair and balanced records and reporting on John Kerry in Vietnam to unfair and unbalanced reporting of Kerry's and Bush's military careers.

First, Kerry joined the Navy. The Navy does what it does. Bush joined the Air Force. Being in the AF myself, I know that it's mission is a lot different from that of the Navy. It always has beena nd always will be. I work with someone who used to be in the Navy. he says himself that the Navy is tougher, more physical, more demanding deployment-wise. these are the respective branches that these men joined. The article portrays Kerry as a national treasure and Bush a pansy little girly-man. This is very biased and unappreciated.

Your article also claims to compare only military records of Bush and Kerry. If this is such unbiased information then pray tell why they felt the need to include these:

1.June 9, 1968:
Bush's student deferment expires.

2.November 1969:
Bush is flown to the White House by President Nixon for a date with daughter Tricia.

3.December 1969:
Bush transfers to Houston and moves into Chateaux Dijon complex. Laura lives there too, but they don't meet till later.

4.December 1972:
In D.C. for the holidays, Bush takes 16-year-old brother Marvin drinking and driving. Confronted by father, Bush suggests they settle it "mano a mano."

What do these things have to do with military service?????!!!!! Nothing!

Also, I find it interesting how they went into such grand detail of Kerry's "heroic" activities as to note where he was hit by shrapnel and what-not, only to breeze lightly over Bush's accomplishments (i.e. "Bush gets his wings").

Also, the article, The Worst of John Kerry, is actually in his defense. These are some of the most liberally-biased articles I have ever read. Saying that Kerry's only crime was "being too honest" is laughable and ridiculous.

This line from his statement about Vietnam also worries me slightly:

'We fought using weapons against "oriental human beings." ' Would he really refer to them in quotations if he was really concerned about them and respected them as humans? I think not. I don't refer to my wife as a "woman". She'd kill me if I did anyhow!!! Putting things in quotes in this context insinuates sarcasm.

If you would like fair and balanced articles for yourself please and try to provide them to others also.

[jmjtina]

um, Bill Clinton vetoed the Partial Abortion Bill when both houses passed it.

The 2nd Bush made it illegal.

[url="http://www.priestsforlife.org"]Priests for Life [/url]

[url="http://www.lifenews.com"]Life News[/url].

I encourage you to check these sites out.

i thought those "military" sites were kinda biased.....but I tried staying on topic

good job frozencell. :thumb:


So yeah, I'll be voting looking at what is happening NOW in the abortion issue, and since Kerry is okay with killing unborn children in the womb, advocating murder, then he will [b]not[/b] get my vote.

[Kilroy the Ninja]

Ok, this is what I've had the time to find this morning

[url="http://hnn.us/roundup/entries/3796.html"]This HNN article[/url] which points to [url="http://ice.he.net/~freepnet/kerry/"]wintersoldier.com[/url]. And which also has [url="http://ice.he.net/~freepnet/kerry/index.php?topic=Testimony"]the entire 32 page transcript of Kerry's[/url] congressional brew-ha-ha.

The most interesting point of the first article:

[quote]One of the most shocking quotes comes from Kerry himself, admitting that he had committed war crimes in Vietnam, then shrugging that off as merely a matter of following orders. Following orders, however, does not absolve someone of guilt for committing war crimes. Which begs the question: will Kerry be willing to discuss the details of the war crimes he admits committing? [/quote]

is the one I'm trying to find in the congressional record. (Or elsewhere).

Bear with me though as I'm also battling a hungry 1 year old....