God And Morality

[Apotheoun]

Being almighty means that God can do with power what can be acheived with power, but it does not mean that God can act contrary to His own nature. The will -- even in God's case -- follows nature, and not the other way around.

[Apotheoun]

[quote name='Don John of Austria' post='1650009' date='Sep 7 2008, 12:54 PM']10. However, none of this requires that God have the Nature He has, one cannot place requirements on God. God is the origin of all things, the definer of all things. [b]If God Willed that Murder was Good then it would be Good.[/b] That would require God to have a differant Nature than He does have, (and I am not saying God changes,) so God does not and will not, and in a strict logical sense only, cannot do such a thing, but it is dangerously arrogant position to say that if God were to Will something it would not be so.[/quote]
God cannot will murder to be moral, and if you really believe that He can then I must confess in all honesty that you and I do not worship the same God, because I worship the God who is the Truth, while you worship a monster that has no essential existence, but is simply a capricious will.

Moreover, as the Pope explained, to deny that God is bound to act according to His nature involves a denial of the analogy of being (or energy) and that is condemned by the Church Fathers, and also by the Latin Church's Fourth Lateran Council.

[Don John of Austria]

[quote name='Apotheoun' post='1650327' date='Sep 7 2008, 09:26 PM']The faith is not limited to "doctrinal documents." God cannot will something contrary to His own nature. I am sorry to say it but your view of the divine will is basically Islamic, not Catholic.[/quote]

So thats code for --- "well I don't have any Doctrinal documents despite the fact that I said it is Catholic Doctrine"

In otherwords it is not Catholic Doctrine it is your interpretation of Doctrines and Dogmas and Catholic Philosophers, which is fine, but that does not mean it is Doctrinal as you claimed.

No my view of the Divine Will is not Islamic, nothing I have said, in anyway is contrary to any Church teaching, [i]in fact I am the only one [/i]who has justified my position with any referance to Church Dogma. If you limit Gods Omnipotent power you are in contradition of the Faith as Defined in Ecumenical Council. When His Holiness says to scientist that God cannot, I am forced to believe that he means connot only in a sense of Logical requirment not in the Sense that God is bound and therefore not Omnipotent, as that would be in contradiction to Revealed Truth.

Please reread my post as you will see that I do not disagree that God cannot act according to his Nature, so long as it is understood as a philosophical and logical distinction and not a real binding on the Divine Will/Power.

If you actually believe that the Godhead is divided into peices and that the Divine Will is somehow distinct from the Divine Nature then you are the one who does not share a Catholic
veiw of God.

If you do indeed understand that such a distinction is only one of Logic to help the finite mind then you should have no objection to what I wrote above.

[Don John of Austria]

[quote name='Apotheoun' post='1650337' date='Sep 7 2008, 09:38 PM']God cannot will murder to be moral, and if you really believe that He can then I must confess in all honesty that you and I do not worship the same God, because I worship the God who is the Truth, while you worship a monster that has no essential existence, but is simply a capricious will.

Moreover, as the Pope explained, to deny that God is bound to act according to His nature involves a denial of the analogy of being (or energy) and that is condemned by the Church Fathers, and also by the Latin Church's Fourth Lateran Council.[/quote]


please reread my post--- You will see I did not say that God can act contrary to His nature. I think I am beginning to understand what the problem in the correlation of our philosophies but I will have to think about how to explian it. I think it has to do with how you Understand Eternal vs how I understand it.

[Don John of Austria]

[quote name='Apotheoun' post='1650337' date='Sep 7 2008, 09:38 PM']God cannot will murder to be moral, and if you really believe that He can then I must confess in all honesty that you and I do not worship the same God, because I worship the God who is the Truth, while you worship a monster that has no essential existence, but is simply a capricious will.

Moreover, as the Pope explained, to deny that God is bound to act according to His nature involves a denial of the analogy of being (or energy) and that is condemned by the Church Fathers, and also by the Latin Church's Fourth Lateran Council.[/quote]

And apotheoun, bring it down a notch... I could just as easily say I worship an omnipotent God who has created from nothing and you worship a pitiful weakling bound by external forces and ideas external to himself. But that would be just as silly as what you are saying. Reread what I said above, and read it with out trying to dissect it first. read it for what I am saying not what you think I am saying.