I Certainly Don't Think Hitler Was As Bad As Luther

[Guest]

[quote name='IcePrincessKRS' post='1651725' date='Sep 9 2008, 07:29 PM']Agreed.

I understand that some people may be having some struggles here, and it's good that you would seek clarification. Like Red said, DJ is a highly educated man and (unless my brain completely fails me) history is his field. I am sure he had good reason for what he said. Also, as some people may not be aware, DJ's style is what we have jokingly referred to in the past as the "hammer over the head method." If something he says strikes you as a little harsh try breaking down what he says and look at the basic facts, or get him to explain his reasons for saying what he says before questioning why he's Church Militant. Believe me, he earned the tag. [/quote]

cool and i respect that ice. and again i will state i was not trying to start trouble, i was just bothered by what he said and i let my emotoins get the best of me. godbless.

[Seven77]

Don John, I really want to know what you meant by the statement.

[pan!c139]

I second that.

[Guest]

[quote name='pan!c139' post='1651711' date='Sep 9 2008, 06:18 PM']Hitler was by far worse. Luther merely broke away from the Church and started his own religion. He had morals and principle. Hitler, on the other hand, declared that only a certain type of people were human beings, and anyone different than that certain type deserved to die. All hell broke loose on earth because of Hitler. He was evil and malicious. Luther was neither evil nor malicious.[/quote]


couldnt agree more.

[Guest]

[quote name='Seven77' post='1651749' date='Sep 9 2008, 06:45 PM']Don John, I really want to know what you meant by the statement.[/quote]

ya me to....
Golden Child made some comment like don jonn made in the catholics are better thread and father pontifex called him out on it and asked him why even post at phatmass ?? don john then went on to disagree with pontifex and side with golden child....again, it was on the topic about no protestant in the western world being repentent or really loveing God....

another statement from him on that thread : " Your Lutherian friends may indeed go to Heaven, for that matter, Hitler may have as well, that we do not know. "

Edited September 10, 2008 by Guest

[pan!c139]

Hitler committed suicide. There's no possible way.

Luther, on the other hand, repented before his death, so I heard.

Man, this is like comparing Obama to McCain.

[Guest]

[quote name='pan!c139' post='1651767' date='Sep 9 2008, 07:08 PM']Hitler committed suicide. There's no possible way.

Luther, on the other hand, repented before his death, so I heard.

Man, this is like comparing Obama to McCain. [/quote]



wow
obama is a brother in Christ, i sure hope hitler isnt.

Edited September 10, 2008 by Guest

[pan!c139]

To me, his statement doesn't make much sense. Clarification, please, Don John?

[Guest]

You know what I really dont care and im done on this. I dont think there is no explanation to makeing hatefull commets like this and then trying to rationalise them. Its just plain up hurtfull to compare the two and i would hate for a young lutheran "CHRISTIAN" to be roaming and read this. Hitler was an evil man who killed and tortured innocent people. The comment was beyond wrong and very hurtfull no way around it. Godbless

Edited September 10, 2008 by Guest

[Winchester]

Saying Luther was a worse evil than Hitler in no way diminishes Hitler's evil. I think it's rather a commentary on the grave damage DJ sees Luther having inflicted upon the Church, who is the Bride of Christ. While one may agree or not, it appears people have drawn conclusions and made accusations without explanation. Thus the question appears to be disingenuous character assassination rather than an honest attempt at dialogue.

I assure you, apart from his deplorable habit of wearing ties with short sleeve shirts, DJ is unimpeachable.

[Guest]

[quote name='Winchester' post='1651813' date='Sep 9 2008, 08:08 PM']Saying Luther was a worse evil than Hitler in no way diminishes Hitler's evil. I think it's rather a commentary on the grave damage DJ sees Luther having inflicted upon the Church, who is the Bride of Christ. While one may agree or not, it appears people have drawn conclusions and made accusations without explanation. Thus the question appears to be disingenuous character assassination rather than an honest attempt at dialogue.

I assure you, apart from his deplorable habit of wearing ties with short sleeve shirts, DJ is unimpeachable.[/quote]


no not at all, im not saying anything about his character, im just offended. im sure he's a great, smart, loveing man. i just get to caught up in these type of statements or when catholics say other christians from other denominations probally arent going to achieve salvation. it just bugs me because its not what the bible teaches, im the one who has shown to have a character problem though, not don jonh.

don john when you read this, no hard feelings, i just disagree with you 110 percent on about everything we have talked about. i believe i have brothers and sisters in christ in other denominations and i dont believe they have to be ordained catholics to join God in heaven, and i dont believe a man who loved and served God and broke away from the church originally because of valid reasons is a worse evil then hitler, call me crazy, at any rate i took this overboard, peace.

Edited September 10, 2008 by Guest

[Resurrexi]

[quote name='Delivery Boy' post='1651818' date='Sep 9 2008, 07:13 PM']i just get to caught up in these type of statements or when catholics say other christians from other denominations probally arent going to achieve salvation. it just bugs me because its not what the bible teaches, im the one who has shown to have a character problem though, not don jonh.[/quote]

D-S 874
"Porro subesse Romano Pontifici omni humanae creaturae declaramus, dicimus, diffinimus omnino esse de necessitate salutis." (Boniface VIII, "Unam Sanctam")

"Furthermore, we declare, say, define, and proclaim to every human creature that they by necessity for salvation are entirely subject to the Roman Pontiff."

Obviously, this dogma has been developed in the last several hundred years, particularly by the last Ecumenical Council, but, of course, it remains completely true.

Edited September 10, 2008 by StThomasMore

[Guest]

what up bro, you dont rep the pope
holla


just jokeing
i respect you alot and i have told you that before
there are christians who attend nondenominational churches who are not anticatholic who are saved. simple.

Edited September 10, 2008 by Guest

[Vincent Vega]

Well, rep the pope or don't, that's still a Church document...

[Guest]

[quote name='USAirwaysIHS' post='1651847' date='Sep 9 2008, 08:45 PM']Well, rep the pope or don't, that's still a Church document...
[/quote]

ok, it still doesnt change the fact that a christian who is not anticatholic and is not an ordained catholic wont not achieve salvation.

[Winchester]

[quote name='Delivery Boy' post='1651818' date='Sep 9 2008, 09:13 PM']no not at all, im not saying anything about his character, im just offended. im sure he's a great, smart, loveing man. i just get to caught up in these type of statements or when catholics say other christians from other denominations probally arent going to achieve salvation. it just bugs me because its not what the bible teaches, im the one who has shown to have a character problem though, not don jonh.

don john when you read this, no hard feelings, i just disagree with you 110 percent on about everything we have talked about. i believe i have brothers and sisters in christ in other denominations and i dont believe they have to be ordained catholics to join God in heaven, and i dont believe a man who loved and served God and broke away from the church originally because of valid reasons is a worse evil then hitler, call me crazy, at any rate i took this overboard, peace.[/quote]Understood.

[Guest]

[quote name='Winchester' post='1651851' date='Sep 9 2008, 09:48 PM']Understood.[/quote]

cool, Godbless you bro, and I RESPECT you both for your faithfullness to Christ and your complex understanding of the church, it confuses the heck out of me.

and I change my statement to "I dont believe they have to be ordained catholics in this lifetime to acheive salvation" Im sure God will take care of that in purgatory and by the time they reach heaven they will be ordained catholics.

Edited September 10, 2008 by Guest

[Resurrexi]

[quote name='Delivery Boy' post='1651849' date='Sep 9 2008, 07:47 PM']there are christians who attend nondenominational churches who are not anticatholic who are saved. simple.[/quote]

That doesn't seem to be what any Pope or Ecumenical Council has ever taught.

You can't be a Catholic and deny the dogmas of the Church.

Edited September 10, 2008 by StThomasMore

[Guest]

[quote name='StThomasMore' post='1651856' date='Sep 9 2008, 09:53 PM']That doesn't seem to be what any Pope or Ecumenical Council has ever taught.[/quote]

o really ??
so you are saying that christians that attend non denominational churches that arent anti catholic and our not fullly aware that the catholic church is the church christ founded are not going to achieve salvation ?? what part of " confess with your mouth Jesus Christ Is Lord and belive in your heart and you will be saved " dont you understand ??
and dont give me the "get away from me i never knew you line" im not talking about gospel pimps going around doing works in jesus name and makeing a bunch of loot from it.
im talking about sincere christians who love chirst and love God. stop judgeing bro, its lame

and if your telling me I cant believe in that scripture and be catholic, then im out, im out of your brand of catholic, because it seems as if your brand of catholic is destrutive and hatefull.

Pontifex said very clearly in the thread in open mic that golden child was wrong and asked him why he's even posting at phatmass for poseing that silly arguement. enough said.

Edited September 10, 2008 by Guest

[Resurrexi]

[quote name='Delivery Boy' post='1651865' date='Sep 9 2008, 07:59 PM']o really ??
so you are saying that christians that attend non denominational churches that arent anti catholic are not going to achieve salvation ?? what part of " confess with your mouth Jesus Christ Is Lord and belive in your heart and you will be saved " dont you understand ??[/quote]

I don't understand your interpretation of it.

"Munus autem authentice interpretandi verbum Dei scriptum vel traditum soli vivo Ecclesiae Magisterio concreditum est, cuius auctoritas in nomine Iesu Christi exercetur. Quod quidem Magisterium non supra verbum Dei est, sed eidem ministrat, docens nonnisi quod traditum est, quatenus illud, ex divino mandato et Spiritu Sancto assistente, pie audit, sancte custodit et fideliter exponit, ac ea omnia ex hoc uno fidei deposito haurit quae tamquam divinitus revelata credenda proponit." (Dei Verbum, 10)

"But the task of authentically interpreting the word of God, whether written or handed on, has been entrusted exclusively to the living teaching office of the Church, whose authority is exercised in the name of Jesus Christ. This teaching office is not above the word of God, but serves it, teaching only what has been handed on, listening to it devoutly, guarding it scrupulously and explaining it faithfully in accord with a divine commission and with the help of the Holy Spirit, it draws from this one deposit of faith everything which it presents for belief as divinely revealed."

Edited September 10, 2008 by StThomasMore