I'm Really Scared

[Hassan]

[quote name='Saint Therese' post='1684063' date='Oct 23 2008, 12:34 AM']I make that statement based on reports of him being a very devout religious muslim, and also based on his intense rabid pro abortion, pro death (not simply pro choice) policies.[/quote]

Right, because Islam is big on Abortion rights for women and gay rights.

You can't have it both ways. If he were a devout Muslim he would neither support abortion rights nor gay marriage.

Of course if he were a devout Muslim he also likely would own no stocks, never eat pork, smoke tobacco, or drink wine. That picture you saw of him comeing out of the water whie vacationign in Hawaii would also not exist as Islam has modesty regulations for men as well as women. A devout Muslim man would never expose himself from the knees the the navel as Obama did while swimming. Nor would a devout Muslim man have broken the Rhamadan fast a I am sure you could videos of Obama doing, like sipping water while speaking.

[Guest]

[quote name='fidei defensor' post='1684076' date='Oct 22 2008, 11:48 PM']What "reports" say that he is a "devout Muslim?"[/quote]

I heard in those reports he levitates to...

[Hassan]

[quote name='Delivery Boy' post='1684079' date='Oct 22 2008, 11:51 PM']I heard in those reports he levitates to...[/quote]

I hear I'm something of a secretly devout Muslim as well.

We're everywhere

[Saint Therese]

[quote name='Hassan' post='1684078' date='Oct 23 2008, 12:50 AM']Right, because Islam is big on Abortion rights for women and gay rights.

You can't have it both ways. If he were a devout Muslim he would neither support abortion rights nor gay marriage.

Of course if he were a devout Muslim he also likely would own no stocks, never eat pork, smoke tobacco, or drink wine. That picture you saw of him comeing out of the water whie vacationign in Hawaii would also not exist as Islam has modesty regulations for men as well as women. A devout Muslim man would never expose himself from the knees the the navel as Obama did while swimming. Nor would a devout Muslim man have broken the Rhamadan fast a I am sure you could videos of Obama doing, like sipping water while speaking.[/quote]
Well devout Christians are not for abortion or gay "marriage" either.

[Adrestia]

[quote name='Saint Therese' post='1684063' date='Oct 22 2008, 11:34 PM']I make that statement based on reports of him being a very devout religious muslim, and also based on his intense rabid pro abortion, pro death (not simply pro choice) policies.[/quote]
He has said that he is not a Muslim.

He has said that he is a Christian.

There is a long record of him attending Christian churches.

His voting record is 100% pro-abortion.

I would conclude that either his Christian formation was very poor or that he has rejected portions of it. No Christian is perfect. I have yet to meet one that is not a hypocrite in some way.

[Hassan]

[quote name='Saint Therese' post='1684082' date='Oct 22 2008, 11:54 PM']Well devout Christians are not for abortion or gay "marriage" either.[/quote]

I'm not going to argue with you over if Obama should or should not call himself a Christian. I am adressing only your claim he is, in secret, a devout Muslim.

The fact is your two comaims are contradictory. If he's a secret devout Muslim then he would not be pro-abortion/infanacide. Nor would he have broken the Ramadan fast, or any of the other things I mentioned

[Saint Therese]

[quote name='Hassan' post='1684085' date='Oct 23 2008, 12:57 AM']I'm not going to argue with you over if Obama should or should not call himself a Christian. I am adressing only your claim he is, in secret, a devout Muslim.

The fact is your two comaims are contradictory. If he's a secret devout Muslim then he would not be pro-abortion/infanacide. Nor would he have broken the Ramadan fast, or any of the other things I mentioned[/quote]

Some of the terrorists of 9/11 went to bars,drank, and went to strip clubs.

[Hassan]

[quote name='Saint Therese' post='1684096' date='Oct 23 2008, 01:00 AM']Some of the terrorists of 9/11 went to bars,drank, and went to strip clubs.[/quote]

Yes, because they were not devout Muslims, or beleived that their act of Jihad would atone. Of course it would not as Islamic theology teaches that the act of "jihad" alone is not enough to get into paradise, one must do it for love of God, simplly doing it as a "get out of hell free" is not the right motivation.

You are not claiming he simply comes from an Islamic family and is a "Muslim" in the same way I am a "Catholic"/"secret Muslim ", in a cultural sense. You claimed he was a devout Muslim.

[Saint Therese]

[quote name='Hassan' post='1684100' date='Oct 23 2008, 01:03 AM']Yes, because they were not devout Muslims, or beleived that their act of Jihad would atone. Of course it would not as Islamic theology teaches that the act of "jihad" alone is not enough to get into paradise, one must do it for love of God, simplly doing it as a "get out of hell free" is not the right motivation.

You are not claiming he simply comes from an Islamic family and is a "Muslim" in the same way I am a "Catholic"/"secret Muslim ", in a cultural sense. You claimed he was a devout Muslim.[/quote]

Frankly I don't care what a devout muslim would do or believe or what the difference is btweena devout or lax Muslim.

[kenrockthefirst]

[quote name='dominicansoul' post='1683496' date='Oct 22 2008, 12:57 PM']It seems there has not been a candidate in all my whole lifetime who hasn't offered anything except old worn out ideology as the basis for their campaigns.

And I understand you are against Obama, but it does seem you would be more satisfied if he beats out McCain? Am I wrong to think this? I think your posts seem much more against McCain than Obama, but maybe I'm reading too much into them...

I'm voting for the lesser of two evils, because i'm trying to keep Obama out of office...although I could do a write-in, seeing that TEXAS will certainly be a McCain win...[/quote]
Let me put it this way: I don't buy into the breathless hysteria that Obama is a "socialist" who wants to turn America into a "socialist" state. In fact, on his economic and foreign policy positions, I much prefer Obama. Indeed, it is [i]only[/i] because of his stance on abortion that I cannot vote for Obama.

McCain, on the other hand, represents a whole universe of terrible policy positions, from the continuation of the neocon debacle that is the war in Iraq to torture to economic policies that have been shown to be so fatally flawed that I'm surprised anyone can seriously espouse them without an apology, let alone a straight face. In addition, McCain is lukewarm at best on "life" issues, and Palin, quite frankly, is so ill-equipped for possibly being president that I literally shudder when I think of her in that role.

[quote name='Saint Therese' post='1684063' date='Oct 22 2008, 11:34 PM']I make that statement based on reports of him being a very devout religious muslim, and also based on his intense rabid pro abortion, pro death (not simply pro choice) policies.[/quote]
I can only assume that this statement is intended as satire.

[dominicansoul]

[quote name='kenrockthefirst' post='1684251' date='Oct 23 2008, 07:29 AM']Let me put it this way: I don't buy into the breathless hysteria that Obama is a "socialist" who wants to turn America into a "socialist" state. In fact, on his economic and foreign policy positions, I much prefer Obama. Indeed, it is [i]only[/i] because of his stance on abortion that I cannot vote for Obama.

McCain, on the other hand, represents a whole universe of terrible policy positions, from the continuation of the neocon debacle that is the war in Iraq to torture to economic policies that have been shown to be so fatally flawed that I'm surprised anyone can seriously espouse them without an apology, let alone a straight face. In addition, McCain is lukewarm at best on "life" issues, and Palin, quite frankly, is so ill-equipped for possibly being president that I literally shudder when I think of her in that role.[/quote]

In the beginning when there were talks to invade Iraq, Pope John Paul II opposed and asked Prez Bush to reconsider going in that direction. Prez Bush didn't take his advice, and now we are, what, 7 years into a war that we should have never started? But mind you, war is a punishment for sin. Abortion is going on strong in this country. We will always be at war if this continues. (And it will only get worse under Obama.)

From what I've heard, Pope Benedict doesn't think it would be very wise for us to leave Iraq abruptly. Now we have to finish what we started, or there may be even worse times for the Iraqi people. It wouldn't be right to just abandon them, would it? I wouldn't consider Obama's idea a very sound policy, if he intends to end the war abruptly and bring our men home...so that what? The Iraqi people will break into civil war and further chaos? Besides, Obama flip flops. He said he would end the war, but now he sounds just like McCain and speaks of taking troops and moving them elsewhere. War is war, buddy...moving soldiers from Iraq to other places doesn't change it.

And Socialist policies are Obama's policies. Stealing from the wealthy to give to the poor? Who's the poor? People who really need the money OR people who are too lazy to get a job and wait for the government to give them handouts? And hurting the wealthy only hurts the poor, because it is the wealthy who own the businesses who hire the poor.

Why do you insists that Obama would make a better president, when he wants to continue the slaughtering of the innocents? You will never get your great economy or an end to war if Abortion-murder is in our president's policy...

You might want to read the entire homepage of this here website...

[kenrockthefirst]

[quote name='dominicansoul' post='1684260' date='Oct 23 2008, 09:35 AM']In the beginning when there were talks to invade Iraq, Pope John Paul II opposed and asked Prez Bush to reconsider going in that direction. Prez Bush didn't take his advice, and now we are, what, 7 years into a war that we should have never started? But mind you, war is a punishment for sin. Abortion is going on strong in this country. We will always be at war if this continues. (And it will only get worse under Obama.)

From what I've heard, Pope Benedict doesn't think it would be very wise for us to leave Iraq abruptly. Now we have to finish what we started, or there may be even worse times for the Iraqi people. It wouldn't be right to just abandon them, would it? I wouldn't consider Obama's idea a very sound policy, if he intends to end the war abruptly and bring our men home...so that what? The Iraqi people will break into civil war and further chaos? Besides, Obama flip flops. He said he would end the war, but now he sounds just like McCain and speaks of taking troops and moving them elsewhere. War is war, buddy...moving soldiers from Iraq to other places doesn't change it.

And Socialist policies are Obama's policies. Stealing from the wealthy to give to the poor? Who's the poor? People who really need the money OR people who are too lazy to get a job and wait for the government to give them handouts? And hurting the wealthy only hurts the poor, because it is the wealthy who own the businesses who hire the poor.

Why do you insists that Obama would make a better president, when he wants to continue the slaughtering of the innocents? You will never get your great economy or an end to war if Abortion-murder is in our president's policy...

You might want to read the entire homepage of this here website...[/quote]
I don't want to get into a debate about the merits or otherwise of the war in Iraq. I opposed the war, I continue to oppose it, and will not vote for a candidate who will continue that war.

As for tax policy, we live in a society, which means that we all give up something for the benefits of living in that society. Otherwise, it's the Law of the Jungle. I don't have a problem with those making $250K or more a year stepping up a little extra to fund two wars. BTW, your allusion to "welfare queens" is a little stale in the context of the $835BB Wall Street bailout.

Finally, I stated that [i]apart from abortion[/i] I preferred Obama. Given his stance on abortion, I will not vote for him. But I will not vote for four more years of the past eight years, either.

[dominicansoul]

[quote name='kenrockthefirst' post='1684265' date='Oct 23 2008, 09:04 AM']I don't want to get into a debate about the merits or otherwise of the war in Iraq. I opposed the war, I continue to oppose it, and will not vote for a candidate who will continue that war.

As for tax policy, we live in a society, which means that we all give up something for the benefits of living in that society. Otherwise, it's the Law of the Jungle. I don't have a problem with those making $250K or more a year stepping up a little extra to fund two wars. BTW, your allusion to "welfare queens" is a little stale in the context of the $835BB Wall Street bailout.

Finally, I stated that [i]apart from abortion[/i] I preferred Obama. Given his stance on abortion, I will not vote for him. But I will not vote for four more years of the past eight years, either.[/quote]

Even if Obama wasn't so pro-death I wouldn't care too much for his policies. Obama's economic advisor worked for Fannie Mae. It's socialism through and through, government loans to those who have no business purchasing things they can't afford. And look what it gets us. We are left to bail them out. I guess you just seem a little too much on Obama's side, even when he doesn't even fit your bill, either. I know you've said your not voting for him, but you sure do show him the love in your posts. You want a person with experience? What experience does Obama have? It seems you don't read too much into what Obama's really about. You don't want 8 more years of failed policies, but Obama will bring even worse policies and probably run our country to the ground.

Oh well, that'll make it much easier for a Pro-life prez in 2012...if we're still around...

[Hassan]

[quote name='Saint Therese' post='1684139' date='Oct 23 2008, 01:31 AM']Frankly I don't care what a devout muslim would do or believe or what the difference is btweena devout or lax Muslim.[/quote]

ok, just continue to dodge rather than adress the blatant contradictions in your claims.

[Hassan]

[quote name='Saint Therese' post='1684139' date='Oct 23 2008, 01:31 AM']Frankly I don't care what a devout muslim would do or believe or what the difference is btweena devout or lax Muslim.[/quote]

ok, just continue to dodge rather than adress the blatant contradictions in your claims.

[kenrockthefirst]

[quote name='dominicansoul' post='1684269' date='Oct 23 2008, 09:21 AM']Even if Obama wasn't so pro-death I wouldn't care too much for his policies. Obama's economic advisor worked for Fannie Mae. It's socialism through and through, government loans to those who have no business purchasing things they can't afford. And look what it gets us. We are left to bail them out. I guess you just seem a little too much on Obama's side, even when he doesn't even fit your bill, either. I know you've said your not voting for him, but you sure do show him the love in your posts. You want a person with experience? What experience does Obama have? It seems you don't read too much into what Obama's really about. You don't want 8 more years of failed policies, but Obama will bring even worse policies and probably run our country to the ground.

Oh well, that'll make it much easier for a Pro-life prez in 2012...if we're still around...[/quote]
Again, we haven't bailed out "Main Street," we've bailed out Wall Street. Our problem isn't socialism, it's plutocracy. As for showing Obama "love," I'm not sure that I've done that. I've merely a) stated a preference for his policy positions other than on abortion and b) expressed the view that I don't want four more years of the past eight years, which have been a disaster.

At the end of the day, we'll all have to vote in accordance with our consciences as informed by our Catholic faith.

[dominicansoul]

[quote name='kenrockthefirst' post='1684281' date='Oct 23 2008, 09:56 AM']Again, we haven't bailed out "Main Street," we've bailed out Wall Street. Our problem isn't socialism, it's plutocracy. As for showing Obama "love," I'm not sure that I've done that. I've merely a) stated a preference for his policy positions other than on abortion and b) expressed the view that I don't want four more years of the past eight years, which have been a disaster.

At the end of the day, we'll all have to vote in accordance with our consciences as informed by our Catholic faith.[/quote]

Seeing that voting for anybody else on election day will surely put Obama in the white house, my Catholic conscience tells me to vote for McCain...

...and any other person who may not know enough on who to vote for between Obama and McCain, if they just casually looked in on some of your posts, I would say you did a great service to Obama...

[Fidei Defensor]

[quote name='Saint Therese' post='1684139' date='Oct 22 2008, 11:31 PM']Frankly I don't care what a devout muslim would do or believe or what the difference is btweena devout or lax Muslim.[/quote]
You didn't answer my question. What "reports" say that Obama is a Muslim?

[Adrestia]

[quote name='dominicansoul' post='1684269' date='Oct 23 2008, 09:21 AM']Even if Obama wasn't so pro-death I wouldn't care too much for his policies. Obama's economic advisor worked for Fannie Mae. It's socialism through and through, government loans to those who have no business purchasing things they can't afford. And look what it gets us. We are left to bail them out. I guess you just seem a little too much on Obama's side, even when he doesn't even fit your bill, either. I know you've said your not voting for him, but you sure do show him the love in your posts. You want a person with experience? What experience does Obama have? It seems you don't read too much into what Obama's really about. You don't want 8 more years of failed policies, but Obama will bring even worse policies and probably run our country to the ground.

Oh well, that'll make it much easier for a Pro-life prez in 2012...if we're still around...[/quote]
With all due respect, neither the current administration nor McCain are any less "socialist" than Obama. The financial institutions are the current beneficiaries and will continue to be under McCain. Obama's version would be more fair... but not more socialist.

By the way, I personally do not support Obama. I just think it's ridiculous to see the pot calling the kettle black over and over.

[HisChildForever]

[quote name='tgoldson' post='1683872' date='Oct 22 2008, 10:23 PM']I have found that to be the case for many others (including non-practicing Christians) as well.

I once had a conversation about abortion with an older doctor who truly believed that a fetus is not a child. In that case, I used the psychological and sociological effects of abortion to highlight how it is intrinsically evil. He seemed to understand me, but I can only pray that my words planted a seed.[/quote]

Today coming home from school, the car in front of me had three Christian bumper stickers - big ones, at that - and then a little bumper sticker with Obama/Biden.