Pro Life Democrat

[kamiller42]

If I had to align myself with a major party, I would examine the underlying ideologies and see how they are or aren't compatible with mine, which is heavily influenced by scripture and Church teachings. In the end, I would choose to be a republican.

Much of why I choose republican is because their proper understanding of the importance of life. It is a foundational issue. "unalienable rights, life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness," [u]in that order[/u]. If a party does not have a proper understanding of the role of life, it is going to have an ill informed opinion of liberties and what happiness means. Indeed, that is exactly the case with the democrat party today as they confuse "liberty" with "license" and "happiness" with "pleasures." It does not surprise me when the democrat party comes out on the wrong side of gay marriage, gun control, school choice, etc. They don't understand "life."

[Justin86]

[quote name='mommas_boy' post='1682745' date='Oct 22 2008, 05:57 AM']The Democratic Party != Socialism. They may favor policies wherein the government provides social programs, but they do not represent Socialism as a whole. There is nothing wrong with such social programs: social security? public education? Medicare? Whether or not these things "work" is irrelevant. The question is whether or not they are immoral. I do not see them being immoral.[/quote]
Well, it's not that I see those things as immoral, but I do think that most of those things are ridiculous to have, and nothing but scams for the government to spend our money, and raise our taxes.

As for the Democrats not equating with socialism, have you looked into Obama's tax plan lately?

[quote name='dUSt' post='1682748' date='Oct 22 2008, 05:58 AM']There are certain aspects of socialism that are perfectly in line with Catholic social teaching. The government has a responsibility to encourage social justice and help the poor.[/quote]
I don't recall Jesus lobbying Cesar for programs for the poor, so I'm afraid I would have to disagree with you that the government has an obligation to help the poor.

[quote name='CatherineM' post='1682755' date='Oct 22 2008, 06:09 AM']Social justice isn't socialism. It's caring for those kids that we fight so hard to make sure they are born rather than aborted. I think pro-life issues would go a lot farther if it didn't seem like all we care about is making sure that abortions stop. If we showed these pro-choice people that we cared about and would take care of those children who are born, maybe we could change some hearts.[/quote]
You could also make an argument that if we aren't serious about defending American lives after they're born through gun ownership, and wars on our enemies, people won't understand why abortion is such an issue either.

[dUSt]

[quote name='Justin86' post='1682766' date='Oct 21 2008, 05:20 PM']I don't recall Jesus lobbying Cesar for programs for the poor, so I'm afraid I would have to disagree with you that the government has an obligation to help the poor.[/quote]

"Welfare policy should reduce poverty and dependency, strengthen family life,
and help families leave poverty through work, training, and assistance with child
care, health care, housing, and transportation. It should also provide a safety net
for those who cannot work."

Source: [url="http://www.usccb.org/faithfulcitizenship/FCStatement.pdf"]http://www.usccb.org/faithfulcitizenship/FCStatement.pdf[/url]

[kamiller42]

[quote name='Justin86' post='1682766' date='Oct 21 2008, 05:20 PM']I don't recall Jesus lobbying Cesar for programs for the poor, so I'm afraid I would have to disagree with you that the government has an obligation to help the poor.[/quote]
Your comment reminds me what I teach in catechism class. Someone might ask you "Why do we have the poor? We pray God helps the poor. Why doesn't he answer?" I reply, "He did. He sent you."

[flip]

[quote name='kamiller42' post='1682756' date='Oct 21 2008, 05:09 PM']If I had to align myself with a major party, I would examine the underlying ideologies and see how they are or aren't compatible with mine, which is heavily influenced by scripture and Church teachings. In the end, I would choose to be a republican.[/quote]

I refer you to "Economic Justice For All" by the US Catholic Bishops. Also look at Catholic Social Teaching. I also refer you to the countless speeches and writings of JPII about the evils of extreme capitalism.

Oh yeah, and read the beatitudes in Luke. And the parable of the Rich Man and Lazarus. Actually, just read the Gospel of Luke and see how Jesus treats the poor and marginalized. And also, look how the early Church lived...

" They devoted themselves to the apostles' teaching and to the fellowship, to the breaking of bread and to prayer. Everyone was filled with awe, and many wonders and miraculous signs were done by the apostles. [b]All the believers were together and had everything in common. Selling their possessions and goods, they gave to anyone as he had need.[/b]" Acts 2:42-45

Sounds like [b]EVIL [/b]socialism!

[kamiller42]

[quote name='flip' post='1682945' date='Oct 21 2008, 08:48 PM']I refer you to "Economic Justice For All" by the US Catholic Bishops. Also look at Catholic Social Teaching. I also refer you to the countless speeches and writings of JPII about the evils of extreme capitalism.

Oh yeah, and read the beatitudes in Luke. And the parable of the Rich Man and Lazarus. Actually, just read the Gospel of Luke and see how Jesus treats the poor and marginalized. And also, look how the early Church lived...

" They devoted themselves to the apostles' teaching and to the fellowship, to the breaking of bread and to prayer. Everyone was filled with awe, and many wonders and miraculous signs were done by the apostles. [b]All the believers were together and had everything in common. Selling their possessions and goods, they gave to anyone as he had need.[/b]" Acts 2:42-45

Sounds like [b]EVIL [/b]socialism![/quote]
Is there a particular issue you would like to discuss? Which evil in the republican platform would you like to discuss? Are the republicans perfect? No, but they are more in line Church teaching than the democrats.

You quote from Acts is more akin to a religious order rather than a declaration of a form a government.

[ardillacid]

[quote name='flip' post='1682945' date='Oct 21 2008, 08:48 PM']I refer you to "Economic Justice For All" by the US Catholic Bishops. Also look at Catholic Social Teaching. I also refer you to the countless speeches and writings of JPII about the evils of extreme capitalism.

Oh yeah, and read the beatitudes in Luke. And the parable of the Rich Man and Lazarus. Actually, just read the Gospel of Luke and see how Jesus treats the poor and marginalized. And also, look how the early Church lived...

" They devoted themselves to the apostles' teaching and to the fellowship, to the breaking of bread and to prayer. Everyone was filled with awe, and many wonders and miraculous signs were done by the apostles. [b]All the believers were together and had everything in common. Selling their possessions and goods, they gave to anyone as he had need.[/b]" Acts 2:42-45

Sounds like [b]EVIL [/b]socialism![/quote]
Sounds like [b]PERSONAL [/b]charity

[Seven77]

if i had to align myself to a political party i couldn't be purple

[FSM Sister]

[quote name='CatherineM' post='1682755' date='Oct 21 2008, 05:09 PM']Who did Jesus care the most about? He didn't hang out with business owners, or politicians, or celebrities. He cared for the disadvantaged, the marginalized, the lepers, all those people who don't pay taxes.[/quote]

How about Simon, the zealot party leader? Zacheus, the tax collector? Matthew? Nicodemus? The Centurion?

Jesus came for - and cared for - everybody.

[flip]

[quote name='kamiller42' post='1682982' date='Oct 21 2008, 09:23 PM']Is there a particular issue you would like to discuss? Which evil in the republican platform would you like to discuss? Are the republicans perfect? No, but they are more in line Church teaching than the democrats.[/quote]

More in line with Church Teaching? Ok, let's start with "Economic Justice For All"...

"Defense Department expenditures in the United States are almost $300 billion per year. The rivalry and mutual fear between superpowers divert into projects that threaten death, minds, and money that could better human life...When weapons or strategies make questionable contributions to security, peace, and justice and will also be very expensive, spending priorities should be redirected to more pressing social needs"

"The investment of wealth, talent, and human energy should be specially directed to benefit those who are poor or economically insecure"

"The needs of the poor take priority over the desires of the rich; the rights of workers over the maximization of profits; the preservation of the environment over uncontrolled industrial expansion; the production to meet social needs over production for military purposes"

" As individuals, all citizens have a duty to assist the poor through acts of charity and personal commitment. But private charity and voluntary action are not sufficient. We also carry out our moral responsibility to assist and empower the poor by working collectively through government to establish just and effective public policies."

"We believe Congress should raise the minimum wage in order to restore some of the purchasing power it has lost due to inflation."

"First, the tax system should raise adequate revenues to pay for the public needs of society, especially to meet the basic needs of the poor. Secondly, [b]the tax system should be structured according to the principle of progressivity, so that those with relatively greater financial resources pay a higher rate of taxation.[/b] The inclusion of such a principle in tax policies is an important means of reducing the severe inequalities of income and wealth in the nation. Action should be taken to reduce or offset a disproportionate burden on those with lower incomes. Thirdly, families below the official poverty line should not be required to pay income taxes. Such families are, by definition, without sufficient resources to purchase basic necessities of life. They should not be forced to bear the additional burden of paying income taxes "





[quote name='kamiller42' post='1682982' date='Oct 21 2008, 09:23 PM']You quote from Acts is more akin to a religious order rather than a declaration of a form a government.[/quote]

It is an image of a society that is guided by Christ. There is nothing evil in it - only goodness. Why can't we work to have this society (which religious orders have embraced) in our world?

Edited October 22, 2008 by flip

[flip]

[quote name='notardillacid' post='1682990' date='Oct 21 2008, 09:40 PM']Sounds like [b]PERSONAL [/b]charity[/quote]

Once again, I quote the US Catholic Bishops:

"As individuals, all citizens have a duty to assist the poor through acts of charity and personal commitment. [b]But private charity and voluntary action are not sufficient. [/b]We also carry out our moral responsibility to assist and empower the poor by working collectively through government to establish just and effective public policies."

[ardillacid]

[quote name='flip' post='1683309' date='Oct 22 2008, 02:36 AM']Secondly, [b]the tax system should be structured according to the principle of progressivity, so that those with relatively greater financial resources pay a higher rate of taxation.[/b] The inclusion of such a principle in tax policies is an important means of reducing the severe inequalities of income and wealth in the nation.[/quote]
Since this is the bolded part of your post, I will adress it:

Are you claiming the rich don't pay taxes at a higher rate than those of less wealth in this country?

I'd also inquire what is the amount of money necessary for the government 'charity' (lol) fair in your opinion?

Edited October 22, 2008 by notardillacid

[ardillacid]

[quote name='flip' post='1682723' date='Oct 21 2008, 04:27 PM']Amen!

And, I'm not so sure about our candidates not making it... check the list below. Plus, we have awesome people like BOB CASEY, JR. who NEEDS to run for freaking president.[/quote]
I assume you mean the Bob Casey Jr. who is publicly supporting Barack Obama?

Indicative much about how far he's willing to go for the pro-life views he holds?

Edited October 22, 2008 by notardillacid

[ardillacid]

I would also like to point out at this point that democrats are (making HUGE generalization...maybe ) opposed to the Catholic principle of subsidiarity. If the government if going to be involved, it should be on the closest level possible to the people, NOT the behemoth that is the federal government of the U.S.

[CatherineM]

[quote name='FSM Sister' post='1683176' date='Oct 21 2008, 11:55 PM']How about Simon, the zealot party leader? Zacheus, the tax collector? Matthew? Nicodemus? The Centurion?

Jesus came for - and cared for - everybody.[/quote]

In Jewish society, tax collectors were marginalized and practically treated as lepers. Just because they had money didn't mean they were accepted. Romans certainly weren't by Jews. Both groups were ritually unclean. Today's ritually unclean are the disabled, especially the mentally ill, the homeless, the addict and the foreigner.

[inDEED]

[quote name='dUSt' post='1682728' date='Oct 21 2008, 01:38 PM']If I was forced to align myself with one party or the other, the label closest to my views would probably be "Pro-life Democrat".

It smells of elderberries that the life issue has been divided so much down party lines.

If Obama wasn't so pro-choice I'd vote for him, but, morally, I cannot--especially since reading the recent letter from the Dallas and Ft Worth bishops on this issue.[/quote]

Yup.

[StColette]

[quote name='flip' post='1682723' date='Oct 21 2008, 04:27 PM']Amen!

And, I'm not so sure about our candidates not making it... check the list below. Plus, we have awesome people like BOB CASEY, JR. who NEEDS to run for freaking president.

Pro-Life Democrats Running in the 2008 Elections

Louisiana- 4
Paul Carmouche[/quote]

Paul Carmouche is a very good man. He and my grandfather were very good friends.

[Didymus]

[quote name='FSM Sister' post='1682259' date='Oct 20 2008, 11:00 PM']Some of the more conservative Bishops are coming right out and calling it the party of death.[/quote]

Can you give a source? So far, all that has been posted on Phatmass have been false claims that Archbishop Burke has come out and said it, but in fact all he said was that they are in danger of becoming the party of death.

Also, I too would most associate myself as a pro-life democrat if I ever needed to choose from the two parties.

I believe that at its core, the abortion issue still remains a special interest issue that many liberals have jumped at in hopes of widening the scope of their support. The same I believe is true with most conservatives. Most of them seem to have accepted a stance against abortion as a special interest "tack on" to their platform.

This is why I believe it is still possible for one to be a member of either party and still be pro-life or pro-choice.

[Akalyte]

[quote name='Brother Adam' post='1682174' date='Oct 20 2008, 09:51 PM']I guess I just don't understand why one would continue to affliate themselves with a party that has been involved in so much destruction and evil. Like the Catholic Church has a specific creed, one does not call themselves "a pro-choice Catholic". If you do, you use the terms in contradiction with each other. I simply cannot consider you a democrat because you are prolife. You do not stand for what democrats have officially embraced.

It is interesting that the Daily Roman Missal states in its examination of confession that affiliations with the Communist Party or Freemasonry carry with it the pain of serious, possibly mortal sin. I can imagine that one day the Democrat Party will be among that list if they continue to hold the same beliefs.[/quote]

The democratic party has been pushing communism on us as it is. It's probably because the communists have a list of goals they wish to achieve in america "capturing" one or both of the political parties was one of their goals. I guess we all know which party that is.

[url="http://www.uhuh.com/nwo/communism/comgoals.htm"]http://www.uhuh.com/nwo/communism/comgoals.htm[/url]

[KnightofChrist]

[quote name='flip' post='1682945' date='Oct 21 2008, 07:48 PM']I refer you to "Economic Justice For All" by the US Catholic Bishops. Also look at Catholic Social Teaching. I also refer you to the countless speeches and writings of JPII about the evils of extreme capitalism.

Oh yeah, and read the beatitudes in Luke. And the parable of the Rich Man and Lazarus. Actually, just read the Gospel of Luke and see how Jesus treats the poor and marginalized. And also, look how the early Church lived...

" They devoted themselves to the apostles' teaching and to the fellowship, to the breaking of bread and to prayer. Everyone was filled with awe, and many wonders and miraculous signs were done by the apostles. [b]All the believers were together and had everything in common. Selling their possessions and goods, they gave to anyone as he had need.[/b]" Acts 2:42-45

Sounds like [b]EVIL [/b]socialism![/quote]

Socialism is evil the Popes have declared.