Will We Ever Learn?

[Justin86]

[quote name='Excelsior1027' post='1697370' date='Nov 8 2008, 12:27 PM']When will this board finally be closed?

Those who don't have a problem with Obama and his policies have made it clear they won't be convinced otherwise by way of argument. That's when we should resort to prayer.

The rest of this is just preaching to the choir.

Honestly, it's all getting old. [/quote]
Even if they did decide to close it, we would just bring all our anti-Obama, and who-are-you-going-to-vote- for-in-2012 topics to the debate table.

[Era Might]

[quote name='Saint Therese' post='1697360' date='Nov 7 2008, 11:19 PM']I'm getting these ideas because I'm a student of history.
Hitler was elected by people who didn't care about what he stood for. He was very charismatic and promised hope and change, and relief from a severe economic crisis.[/quote]
Hitler came to power following the unstable Weimar government. To use a comparison, Germany was in a political situation similar to the United States during the period of the Articles of Confederation. Their political system was unstable. The American political system, at its core, is very stable (and has been stable for hundreds of years). We have checks and balances. Congress could impeach the president. He is bound to a four-year term, so the people can choose not to reelect him (and he can only serve two terms). Even if an American President wanted to be a dictator, I don't think it would be possible.

[Saint Therese]

We have checks and balances but they are no longer used.

ACtually we've already come close to having a dictator. FDR served four terms as president and attempted to stack the supreme court, which would have given him almost unlimited power. He also called Stalin "Uncle Joe".

[Fidei Defensor]

[quote name='Saint Therese' post='1697409' date='Nov 7 2008, 09:54 PM']We have checks and balances but they are no longer used.

ACtually we've already come close to having a dictator. FDR served four terms as president and attempted to stack the supreme court, which would have given him almost unlimited power. He also called Stalin "Uncle Joe".[/quote]
How are the checks and balances not being used?

[Justin86]

[quote name='Era Might' post='1697404' date='Nov 8 2008, 12:51 PM']Hitler came to power following the unstable Weimar government. To use an comparison, Germany was in a political situation similar to the United States during the period of the Articles of Confederation. Their political system was unstable. The American political system, at its core, is very stable (and has been stable for hundreds of years). We have checks and balances. Congress could impeach the president. He is bound to a four-year term, so the people can choose not to reelect him (and he can only serve two terms). Even if an American President wanted to be a dictator, I don't think it would be possible.[/quote]
Checks and balances become useless when you have a Democratic majority in Congress, and a Democrat in the White House.

[Hassan]

[quote name='Era Might' post='1697404' date='Nov 7 2008, 11:51 PM']Hitler came to power following the unstable Weimar government. To use an comparison, Germany was in a political situation similar to the United States during the period of the Articles of Confederation. Their political system was unstable. The American political system, at its core, is very stable (and has been stable for hundreds of years). We have checks and balances. Congress could impeach the president. He is bound to a four-year term, so the people can choose not to reelect him (and he can only serve two terms). Even if an American President wanted to be a dictator, I don't think it would be possible.[/quote]


According to mathematical logic folk lore Kurt Godel found a way for the President to become a dictatorial figure while he was studying the constitution for his citizenship exam. Einstein tried to get him to forget the whole deal but when the judge asked him to affirm that the US President could never become an authoritarian figure like Hitler (Godel was Austrian) Godel objected to this claim and laid out how it could be done.

[Hassan]

[quote name='Saint Therese' post='1697409' date='Nov 7 2008, 11:54 PM']We have checks and balances but they are no longer used.[/quote]

Yes they are.

[quote]ACtually we've already come close to having a dictator. FDR served four terms as president and attempted to stack the supreme court[/quote]


FDR was ELECTED to four terms and he attempted to expand the size of the court (perfectly legal) so he could appoint justices.

[quote]which would have given him almost unlimited power.[/quote]
Not even close

[quote]He also called Stalin "Uncle Joe".[/quote]

Because FDR loved Stalin.

[Saint Therese]

I would say when we have a Supreme Court that legislates from the bench, that the checks and balances are not being used. That is an unconstitutinal abuse of power.

[Fidei Defensor]

[quote name='Saint Therese' post='1697423' date='Nov 7 2008, 10:01 PM']I would say when we have a Supreme Court that legislates from the bench, that the checks and balances are not being used. That is an unconstitutinal abuse of power.[/quote]
What exactly do you mean by "legislate from the bench?" Your statement is ambiguous.

[Era Might]

[quote name='Saint Therese' post='1697409' date='Nov 7 2008, 11:54 PM']We have checks and balances but they are no longer used.

ACtually we've already come close to having a dictator. FDR served four terms as president and attempted to stack the supreme court, which would have given him almost unlimited power. He also called Stalin "Uncle Joe".[/quote]
Checks and balances are still used. Congress still has to approve judicial appointments. The President still vetoes bills or issues signing statements. The Supreme Court is still making rulings and exercising judicial review.

The 22nd amendment made it impossible for a President to be elected more than twice. Even if the President could be elected more than two times, he still has to be elected. His power depends on the people, and you cannot be a dictator when your power is controlled by others.

[Hassan]

[quote name='Saint Therese' post='1697423' date='Nov 8 2008, 12:01 AM']I would say when we have a Supreme Court that legislates from the bench, that the checks and balances are not being used. That is an unconstitutinal abuse of power.[/quote]


the court does not "legislate from the bench". They cannot write legislation and enact it as law.

[Era Might]

[quote name='Justin86' post='1697414' date='Nov 7 2008, 11:56 PM']Checks and balances become useless when you have a Democratic majority in Congress, and a Democrat in the White House.[/quote]
The constitutional checks and balances always remain the same, but the exercise of those checks and balances has always varied according to political circumstances.

[Saint Therese]

[quote name='fidei defensor' post='1697424' date='Nov 7 2008, 11:02 PM']What exactly do you mean by "legislate from the bench?" Your statement is ambiguous.[/quote]
Look it up.

[Era Might]

[quote name='Hassan' post='1697416' date='Nov 7 2008, 11:57 PM']According to mathematical logic folk lore Kurt Godel found a way for the President to become a dictatorial figure while he was studying the constitution for his citizenship exam. Einstein tried to get him to forget the whole deal but when the judge asked him to affirm that the US President could never become an authoritarian figure like Hitler (Godel was Austrian) Godel objected to this claim and laid out how it could be done. [/quote]
I think the only way a President could become a dictator is if there were some kind of outrageous constitutional amendment that completely changed the system. In the system as we have it, I don't think it is possible for a President to become a dictator.

[Fidei Defensor]

[quote name='Saint Therese' post='1697433' date='Nov 7 2008, 10:07 PM']Look it up.[/quote]
No. If you are going to present an argument, you need to define your terms. It's not up to me to magically know what you're talking about. I can't properly respond until I know what you mean.

[Era Might]

By the way, I have to write a paper this weekend on checks and balances.

[princessgianna]

[quote name='Justin86' post='1697375' date='Nov 7 2008, 10:32 PM']It's all the comparisons of Obama to Jesus. I mean, "We don't need Jesus, we have Obama." Oh, and of course, "Obama is my Jesus." This is more than just liking a politician. I liked Bush, but I never compared him to Jesus, and never met anyone who did. What people do with Obama is more like worship. It's clearly insane, and possibly a sign that he's the Anti-Christ.[/quote]

that is what i find the most disturbing. but you know,!

this is a good video!

[url="http://www.theonion.com/content/video/obama_win_causes_obsessive?utm_source=EMTF_Onion"]http://www.theonion.com/content/video/obam...urce=EMTF_Onion[/url]

[Mercy me]

I would love to say that we learn from history but we really don't even teach history. Most people would not even have the knowledge to recognize that Obama's statement mirror Castro's and Hitler's.

[Saint Therese]

[quote name='Mercy me' post='1697499' date='Nov 8 2008, 12:11 AM']I would love to say that we learn from history but we really don't even teach history. Most people would not even have the knowledge to recognize that Obama's statement mirror Castro's and Hitler's.[/quote]
I agree.

[philothea]

[quote name='Saint Therese' post='1697360' date='Nov 7 2008, 10:19 PM']I'm getting these ideas because I'm a student of history.
Hitler was elected by people who didn't care about what he stood for. He was very charismatic and promised hope and change, and relief from a severe economic crisis.[/quote]
Actually, Hitler ran for president and lost. He was appointed Chancellor during a period of massive conflict, and took advantage of that situation to overthrow the German government. He only became popular later, because he'd established order.

[quote name='Justin86' post='1697375' date='Nov 7 2008, 10:32 PM']It's all the comparisons of Obama to Jesus. I mean, "We don't need Jesus, we have Obama." Oh, and of course, "Obama is my Jesus." This is more than just liking a politician. I liked Bush, but I never compared him to Jesus, and never met anyone who did. What people do with Obama is more like worship. It's clearly insane, and possibly a sign that he's the Anti-Christ.[/quote]
First, do you actually know anyone who says that? All I see are quotes in tabloid-esque websites, which are trying to stir up panic. In any case, many celebrities get followers like that.

[quote name='Era Might' post='1697435' date='Nov 7 2008, 11:08 PM']I think the only way a President could become a dictator is if there were some kind of outrageous constitutional amendment that completely changed the system. In the system as we have it, I don't think it is possible for a President to become a dictator.[/quote]
Yeah. And the military would have to agree to support him against the people and the rest of the government. I really don't see it happening.