Augustine of Hippo Posted December 31, 2008 Author Share Posted December 31, 2008 (edited) Any site which offers you selections on the question as to how much you disagree with abortion is definately catering to the concerns of business rather than the truth of Christ. It is not Catholic. Abortion is always wrong and completely evil. The question is never HOW evil is abortion. I remember any number of users of the site who claimed that abortion was a person choice, that contraception was a personal choice, and that they did not agree with the teachings of the Pope. The site also catered to people who had civil divorces who were not sacramentally eligible for marriage. Encouraging adultry? Edited December 31, 2008 by Augustine of Hippo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Socrates Posted December 31, 2008 Share Posted December 31, 2008 [quote name='Augustine of Hippo' post='1739145' date='Dec 30 2008, 08:06 PM']The fact is, I did make my misgivings known to the creators and moderators of the site. What I got was a curt response that amounted to "Sorry, all sales are final , but wel'll keep you in our prayers". Any site for whatever purpose it exists is a business venture. I don't feel that I am bashing Catholics or Catholicism by writing about this. First and foremost I am a dissatisfied customer. Normally the first course of action when a customer is dissatisfied is to make some kind of offer of good will. The website is a business, not a vocation. The site itself only peripherally pertains to any vocation.[/quote] Read the terms before paying. That's standard procedure for any such website. After paying for full membership, you can't just get your money back because you just don't like it. [quote]No, the major purpose of the website is to make money, and to that end the proper course of action is to create satisfied customers. If I was a dissatisfied customer, they should have accomodated me. Whether I had given the site a month, 8 months or 8 years I was still an unhappy customer. No, the site cannot grant full participation by the members who subscribe to the site, they can however maintain disclosure as to how many members are in fact active so as not to present an inaccurate picture of member usage. People on this site talk about "down talking". I didn't like a website that presented itself to be "Catholic". I am really interested as to why so many seem to take personal offense at my writing about this subject. Ave Maria Singles is no way sanctioned by the Catholic Church. They can say that the site is dedicated to whomever they will, but that does not make it so. Every website is going to present a good advertising logo and slogan. And they will present as many favorable reviews as possible. I doubt that I am the first dissatisfied customer that Ave Maria Singles has ever had and in fact a good number of users stated that they only frequented the site because of the forum, having since lost an expectation that they would ever meet a potential spouse.[/quote] People are taking offense because of the slanderous nature of some of your remarks, as I noted earlier. [quote]Reading material, sited articles, books, retreats and meetings; none of these to me suggest to me any sense of certainty that the website was Christ centered, being Catholic. Perhaps it is my pervading cynicism that the very word "Catholic" is tossed about so carelessly, with no thought or appreciation, that makes me suspicious of all things that claim to be Catholic. My dealings with so-called Catholic in political and moral discussions present me with a contradictory view of Catholics. On the one hand they may readily be able to quote Saints and speak about the Doctrines of the Church. On the other hand however in their personal lives and as participating members of society promote and espouse exactly the wrong moral viewpoints. Examples: pre-marital sex, contraception, pro-choice/abortion, stem cell research, artificial conception.[/quote] You must not have seen the same articles, books, retreats and meetings I did. They all seemed quite Catholic and orthodox in their nature to me. It's you that's tossing about accusations of being un-Christian carelessly. And if you are implying that Anthony Buono or AMS in any way promotes and espouses pre-marital sex, contraception, pro-choice/abortion, stem cell research, artificial conception, that is just more nonsensical slander. You've given no evidence whatever of the materials on the site not being Catholic or Christ-centered; you are making hypocritical, slanderous and baseless accusations, which have no place on any Catholic message board. [quote]All of this circles around the question; what does it mean to be a Catholic? I think that the one misunderstanding that continues about me in this discussion is how unimportant marriage is to me as a vocation. I am become far to bitter and disillusioned to believe that love is anything other than a romantic and nostalgic notion reserved only for the most idealistic among our number. For most people I think that marriage represents a stumbling block to sane and stable living. I think that I could no longer expect that any person could satisfy any need I have for companionship than I could realistically long to go to the moon and back.[/quote] If marriage is so unimportant to you, then why the heck did you join AMS in the first place? Get over it, and move on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lil Red Posted December 31, 2008 Share Posted December 31, 2008 [quote name='Augustine of Hippo' post='1739253' date='Dec 30 2008, 08:57 PM']Any site which offers you selections on the question as to how much you disagree with abortion[/quote] +J.M.J.+ perhaps they do this so as to give orthodox members a way to weed out those not to their liking, hmmm? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augustine of Hippo Posted December 31, 2008 Author Share Posted December 31, 2008 (edited) I just viewed on this Phatmass website a multiple page thread on masturbation (with a poll) in which members openly joked about the subject matter. And you think that this discussion is inappropriate? Edited December 31, 2008 by Augustine of Hippo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lil Red Posted December 31, 2008 Share Posted December 31, 2008 [quote name='Augustine of Hippo' post='1739265' date='Dec 30 2008, 09:01 PM']I just viewed on this Phatmass website a multiple page thread on masturbation (with a poll) in which members openly joked about the subject matter. And you think that this discussion is inappropriate?[/quote] +J.M.J.+ okay, this pisses me off. i've been trying to give you the benefit of the doubt in this discussion. because obviously you were selective in what you were reading in that thread. many many many times in that thread was the Church's teaching discussed, and that many disclaimers were given for those who might be reading. here's a thought: if much of what you read on the internet offends you, unplug the modem! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augustine of Hippo Posted December 31, 2008 Author Share Posted December 31, 2008 [quote name='Lil Red' post='1739263' date='Dec 31 2008, 12:00 AM']+J.M.J.+ perhaps they do this so as to give orthodox members a way to weed out those not to their liking, hmmm?[/quote] Yes, I don't seem to remember the part where the site said that there would be "pro-choice" Catholics. Some were even posting in the forums that Catholics should vote for the very pro-abortion Barack Obama. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Socrates Posted December 31, 2008 Share Posted December 31, 2008 [quote name='Augustine of Hippo' post='1739253' date='Dec 30 2008, 11:57 PM']Any site which offers you selections on the question as to how much you disagree with abortion is definately catering to the concerns of business rather than the truth of Christ. It is not Catholic. Abortion is always wrong and completely evil. The question is never HOW evil is abortion. I remember any number of users of the site who claimed that abortion was a person choice, that contraception was a personal choice, and that they did not agree with the teachings of the Pope. The site also catered to people who had civil divorces who were not sacramentally eligible for marriage. Encouraging adultry?[/quote] The reason is to let other members no where members actually stand on moral issues. In its materials, AMS makes the immorality of abortion, contraception, etc. quite clear. Better when seeking a Catholic spouse to know if their own positions are indeed in accord with the Church, than to assume they are, only to find out later they are not. AS on any site, some people who are not truly Catholic in their views on morality will join. AMS makes it clear who they are (and makes it easy to weed them out when conducting searches). Perhaps you, sir, need to read what the Church teaches on the evil of calumny and slander. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lil Red Posted December 31, 2008 Share Posted December 31, 2008 +J.M.J.+ [quote name='Augustine of Hippo' post='1739272' date='Dec 30 2008, 09:05 PM']Yes, I don't seem to remember the part where the site said that there would be "pro-choice" Catholics. Some were even posting in the forums that Catholics should vote for the very pro-abortion Barack Obama.[/quote] the same has happened here. did you happen to read there (or here for that matter), people speaking up for the Church's teaching on abortion? i think you read what you want to read and ignore the rest. [quote name='Socrates' post='1739274' date='Dec 30 2008, 09:05 PM']The reason is to let other members no where members actually stand on moral issues. In its materials, AMS makes the immorality of abortion, contraception, etc. quite clear. Better when seeking a Catholic spouse to know if their own positions are indeed in accord with the Church, than to assume they are, only to find out later they are not. AS on any site, some people who are not truly Catholic in their views on morality will join. AMS makes it clear who they are (and makes it easy to weed them out when conducting searches).[/quote]agreed. [quote name='Socrates' post='1739274' date='Dec 30 2008, 09:05 PM']Perhaps you, sir, need to read what the Church teaches on the evil of calumny and slander.[/quote]definitely agreed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augustine of Hippo Posted December 31, 2008 Author Share Posted December 31, 2008 While claiming to be wise, they became geniuses and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for the likeness of an image of mortal man or of birds or of four-legged animals or of snakes. Therefore, God handed them over to impurity through the lusts of their hearts for the mutual degradation of their bodies. They exchanged the truth of God for a lie and revered and worshiped the creature rather than the creator, who is blessed forever. Amen. Therefore, God handed them over to degrading passions. Their females exchanged natural relations for unnatural, and the males likewise gave up natural relations with females and burned with lust for one another. Males did shameful things with males and thus received in their own persons the due penalty for their perversity. And since they did not see fit to acknowledge God, God handed them over to their undiscerning mind to do what is improper. They are filled with every form of wickedness, evil, greed, and malice; full of envy, murder, rivalry, treachery, and spite. They are gossips and scandalmongers and they hate God. They are insolent, haughty, boastful, ingenious in their wickedness, and rebellious toward their parents. They are senseless, faithless, heartless, ruthless. Although they know the just decree of God that all who practice such things deserve death, they not only do them but give approval to those who practice them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lil Red Posted December 31, 2008 Share Posted December 31, 2008 [quote name='Augustine of Hippo' post='1739280' date='Dec 30 2008, 09:08 PM']While claiming to be wise, they became geniuses and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for the likeness of an image of mortal man or of birds or of four-legged animals or of snakes. Therefore, God handed them over to impurity through the lusts of their hearts for the mutual degradation of their bodies. They exchanged the truth of God for a lie and revered and worshiped the creature rather than the creator, who is blessed forever. Amen. Therefore, God handed them over to degrading passions. Their females exchanged natural relations for unnatural, and the males likewise gave up natural relations with females and burned with lust for one another. Males did shameful things with males and thus received in their own persons the due penalty for their perversity. And since they did not see fit to acknowledge God, God handed them over to their undiscerning mind to do what is improper. They are filled with every form of wickedness, evil, greed, and malice; full of envy, murder, rivalry, treachery, and spite. They are gossips and scandalmongers and they hate God. They are insolent, haughty, boastful, ingenious in their wickedness, and rebellious toward their parents. They are senseless, faithless, heartless, ruthless. Although they know the just decree of God that all who practice such things deserve death, they not only do them but give approval to those who practice them.[/quote]+J.M.J.+ ?? what is the purpose of posting this? are you applying this to AMS or to phatmass? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augustine of Hippo Posted December 31, 2008 Author Share Posted December 31, 2008 It was a pro-choice Catholic who led me to this forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augustine of Hippo Posted December 31, 2008 Author Share Posted December 31, 2008 It was a Phatmass member who so glowingly endorsed Ave Maria Singles website. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lil Red Posted December 31, 2008 Share Posted December 31, 2008 [quote name='Augustine of Hippo' post='1739284' date='Dec 30 2008, 09:10 PM']It was a pro-choice Catholic who led me to this forum.[/quote] +J.M.J.+ and your point? oh it must be that phatmass is bad because a pro-death Catholic referred you here. gimme a break. if you don't like it here, leave. and in case you haven't noticed, dUSt (the webmaster) as a system in place to tag those who claim to be Catholic but advocate for non-Catholic positions (such as homosexual 'marriages', abortion, etc.). they get tagged with a 'i do not rep the pope' tag (a source of consternation for most). those who consistently uphold and defend Catholic teachings are tagged "Church Militant" - meaning you can trust what they say concerning Catholic teachings. and if they stray they are stripped of that tag (it's happened). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lil Red Posted December 31, 2008 Share Posted December 31, 2008 [quote name='Augustine of Hippo' post='1739285' date='Dec 30 2008, 09:11 PM']It was a Phatmass member who so glowingly endorsed Ave Maria Singles website.[/quote] +J.M.J.+ again, your point? obviously there are couples here who met because of AMS. obviously they are going to give it a good recommendation because it worked for them. [b]obviously[/b] it didn't work for you so MOVE ON! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
missionseeker Posted December 31, 2008 Share Posted December 31, 2008 [quote name='Luthien' post='1739239' date='Dec 30 2008, 11:42 PM']Carnies. [/quote] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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