Man Drives Suv Into Planned Parenthood Clinic

[Winchester]

[quote name='MithLuin' post='1764870' date='Jan 28 2009, 05:27 PM']And I am [i]very[/i] ambivalent about Just War theory being applied to private actions, because vigilante justice has a tendency [i]not[/i] to be just. It was not intended to be used in defense of anarchy or 'private wars' - it was developed as a way of judging conflicts between nations. Private citizens do not a nation make.

Certain things have to be true to make a non-violent resistance feasible - I am not suggesting that it always will work or is the answer to every conflict. But in general, if you are the first one to pick up a gun, your cause loses, even if you win the skirmish. Waco stockpiled weapons because they were afraid the gov't would come after them. Ended up being a self-fulfilling prophecy.


But just because my last post did not reference Catholic social teaching on this subject does not mean I am ignorant of it nor does it mean that my views are not compatible with it.

In the case of an unjust government, overthrowing them may be legitimate, but a violent coup, civil war or revolution is hardly the only way to do that. In democratic countries, you have the opportunity to throw out your leader every few years. There can be a turn-over of elected officials. If you don't work for this, and go straight for the kill....people would be right to view you as a terrorist and a warmonger. You wouldn't have met the criteria of exhausting other means first. In the case of an oppressive dictator (such as Mugabe in Zimbabwe) the situation is different.[/quote]Again with the presuppositions.

There is not a type of body capable of waging war who does not typically use it unjustly. Numbers don't make the likelihood of abuse any less. Democracy has borne this out over its history.

The group in Waco wasn't revolutionary--they were nutjobs. They were apocalypse freaks. They are an unacceptable example. A better choice would have been the PIRA.

I didn't accuse you of being ignorant of it, so there's no need to mention that.

In democratic countries, the power is rarely couched in one person and the parties which gain control are suitably staggered in their various offices so as to make real "throwing out" next to impossible, especially once the press is moved in. As much as I love the US and feel we're still in the top nations (and enjoy my freedom), I know there's next to no chance of stemming the tide of leftism that is going to drown those freedoms. But our system will likely exist enough to permit the inevitable backlash. We're looking at decades--our government moves at a snail's pace, but the world is headed in the direction of the left, so we're not going to be any different. The real revolutions are generations off, but they will occur because one day, our leftists will grow up into the Lenin/Stalin/Mao model. Again, this will take a couple of generations. Or maybe they'll die off because the movement is so entirely asinine it's unbelievable anyone follows it. But I doubt it. People are stupid and getting worse every day.

But that doesn't go along the lines of my argument, anyway. I just couldn't resist commenting on the red herring.

[foolishmortal]

Ok. The hacking and website crashing idea I once had was a bit pushing it.

I think the errors of Russia kind of communism thrives on people wanting what they want and rationalizing their increasingly bolder means. It's all about undermining the Church and its influence in the world, as has been the aim of the Masons, because Freemasonry is demonic. The Church is the embodiment of all that stands in the way of everyone, with the prodding of the Masons (and related and/or offspring organizations like The Illuminati, The Club of Rome, Rotary International, radical Greens, The Klan, communism, "Big Science", The Bildebergers, etc.) losing their mind in sensual indulgence. The Church is the Bride of Christ and The Masons are the love child of Satan. It's in all the Gnostic imagery. Maybe the Masons is the offspring of the Gnostics. I'll leave that to the historians here. They don't have to explain this to the sophmorics in academia; just supply the weed, coke, heroin, crack, meth, porn of various stripes, mind-distracting rock n roll, etc., they'll become permissive parents, and the later generations of commies can spread their tentacles deeper and deeper into society until we are sheep. Saying that about the Church was like LBJ's platform (maybe not him, then) of saying Goldwater would send more troops to Vietnam and then, doing it himself (despite bad advice, he betrayed America's trust). Nixon's lying was no good, but at least he ended our participation in the war and was still the most hated (I'm no admirer of his, BTW). Anyway, the followers of the left are sheep, but of a shepherd that hates and cares for themselves.

We, the red diaper doper babies and their offspring and the the ones from wise families who get confused by the radicals in high school and college, think with no reason and not critically. A certain feeling-rooted philosophy is called "critical thinking" and so they drop off their reasoning there. Professors' feelings warp their own logic and that affects the thinking of their emulating students. They want to laugh at authority, but, in their sophmorism, they don't question the authority of those that questioned authority. The other worthwhile option is Christianity, as Buddhists and other "wisdom" religions, except Islam, have their thumbs up their you know whats about truth, so no one really benefits. They just want false harmony in the face of evil, even trying to harmonize evil with good. Unfortunately, lies about Christianity, esp. Catholic Christianity, are told so often, many students don't consider it. We have more outspoken people here than in other countries, but things still are sliding left.

We are headed for real trouble. Has it been noticed that the visible decline of Western Civ. has chronologically coincided with tacky art, architecture and liturgical music (both were under attack before the 60s, of course). I think others may not tolerate Catholicism anymore before long, though the war declared against us may win us powerful converts as God brings grace out of evil times. A persecuted status may straighten out the minds of the "reasonable" Catholics who tossed out relics, exorcism, altar rails, etc. in an ironically puritanical manner and, in a Biblical-literalist manner, used the tradition with a small "t" as a technicality to rationalize it (which really separates liberal Catholics from heretics, though the former may be acting with a heretical basis of reasoning).






[quote name='Winchester' post='1764919' date='Jan 28 2009, 07:17 PM']Again with the presuppositions.

There is not a type of body capable of waging war who does not typically use it unjustly. Numbers don't make the likelihood of abuse any less. Democracy has borne this out over its history.

The group in Waco wasn't revolutionary--they were nutjobs. They were apocalypse freaks. They are an unacceptable example. A better choice would have been the PIRA.

I didn't accuse you of being ignorant of it, so there's no need to mention that.

In democratic countries, the power is rarely couched in one person and the parties which gain control are suitably staggered in their various offices so as to make real "throwing out" next to impossible, especially once the press is moved in. As much as I love the US and feel we're still in the top nations (and enjoy my freedom), I know there's next to no chance of stemming the tide of leftism that is going to drown those freedoms. But our system will likely exist enough to permit the inevitable backlash. We're looking at decades--our government moves at a snail's pace, but the world is headed in the direction of the left, so we're not going to be any different. The real revolutions are generations off, but they will occur because one day, our leftists will grow up into the Lenin/Stalin/Mao model. Again, this will take a couple of generations. Or maybe they'll die off because the movement is so entirely asinine it's unbelievable anyone follows it. But I doubt it. People are stupid and getting worse every day.

But that doesn't go along the lines of my argument, anyway. I just couldn't resist commenting on the red herring.[/quote]