Drug Needle Exchanges?

[Lil Red]

+J.M.J.+
are needle exchange programs a good or bad idea?

[philothea]

Huh. Good question!


My first reaction is "yes, they're a good idea" but I'll have to think about it more.

Edited January 26, 2009 by philothea

[Lil Red]

+J.M.J.+
i thought it was a good idea too, but then i read an argument against them, saying it 'normalizes' drug use. so i decided to ask the pham's opinions!

[CatherineM]

They've had a lot of debate about the site in Vancouver. We know it lessens the rates of HIV and Hep C transmission, the rates of nasty infections because of dirty needles, and puts users in touch with potential help be it rehab or housing.

The other side of the coin is that it makes it easier to stay in their addiction. It makes it feel more legitimate. Part of what gets people to the point where they seek help, is looking around and seeing themselves in the gutter, sometimes literally. When you take away a negative consequence, you are helping people stay sicker longer.

[picchick]

LIL RED!!!! I saw this topic too late. I have so much to say on this topic. I have to go to work though. I'll share my thoughts when I get home.

Edited January 26, 2009 by picchick

[Lil Red]

[quote name='picchick' post='1762432' date='Jan 26 2009, 12:16 PM']LIL RED!!!! I saw this topic too late. I have so much to say on this topic. I have to go to work though. I'll share my thoughts when I get home.[/quote]
+J.M.J.+
sounds good!

[havok579257]

its definatly a good thing. to many people in this world are infected with HIV/AIDS and Hep C and require medical care for life. just from a financial point of view from the state, if we eliminated everyone who contracted diseases by dirty needles, we would be saving millions of dollars.

i see this as the lesser of two evils. yes addiction is bad but HIV/AIDS and other diseases threaten everyone. too many people are not only infected but also don't know about it, thus exposing many people to these diseases.

[cmotherofpirl]

Only if they are coupled with NA meetings or counseling.

[HisChildForever]

I need to sneak in here and add my two cents. It must be understood that not every addict shares - those who do are most likely the ones out on the streets who either do not have a set of their own or who squat at "drug houses" (I completely forget the proper name for them). Some of them are [b]very[/b] conscious of the risks. My ex was an addict and besides never sharing, he constantly cleaned his sets with bleach. When in rehab he was partnered with an HIV positive roomie and requested a room change immediately (I remember him freaking out on the phone and coming up with the most bizarre scenarios of infection).

[T-Bone _]

I see how people can be against such things, but in the wash, it would benefit society not to have diseases spreading.

Blood borne diseases put medical professionals at risk when treating these people. Putting a halt on the spread will keep our doctors, nurses and EMTs safer.

[picchick]

Drug users are at an increased risk for HIV/AIDS especially when they reuse needles, use each other's needles. They are at an increased risk for Hepatitis as well. By utalizing the needle exchange program, drug users can decrease their risk and trade old dirty needles for new clean ones. This is will decrease the spread of HIV/AIDS among drug users thus creating a less strain on the health system.
It will also protect those around the drug users. As T-Bone suggests, it will keep doctors, nurses, EMT’s and other health care workers safer. But so does condoms. However, we do not support the use of condoms because it is a way of contraception which is sinful. So is drug usage depending on the nature and mind set of the drug user.
I see it as indirectly encouraging drug use. We cannot change the minds of people. People must think and decide for themselves. However, we should not encourage the use of drugs rather we should encourage these people to seek help. I am sure that such programs do that at the same time. Yet in my mind, the needle exchange program creates reinforcement for negative behavior.
As many of you see, there is a great strain in the health care system. There are so many people who come through the hospital who are unable to pay. The prices just keep rising as well. Why are we able to give out free needles to drug users yet we are not able to vaccinate some kids in the United States? Why is it that families have to struggle to pay a hospital bill but we can hand out free needles to druggies? This is the main thing that frustrates me. Yes, there is more to the health care system than just needles. There is a great deal of waste which contributes to a higher cost of health care. There is in my opinion price gauging that takes place. Yet at the same time, I cannot support a program that gives away free needles to someone using drugs.
The use of drugs is a very complex situation. This is not only about the spread of HIV/AIDS. This is a greater problem than just that. Drugs affect not only that person but their family. It affects the dealers, the higher up people. It is not just one person and one problem. Drugs destroy lives. The needle exchange program may help lower HIV/AIDs but the needle exchange program cannot help these people mend their lives and the lives around them.
How many of these same people are homeless? Jobless? Give a man a fish, you feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish, you feed him for life. How does the needle exchange program help in the bigger picture? It doesn’t.
So yes, there is a good reason for the program: decreasing the spread of HIV/AIDs. However, I cannot support something that in the long run will do more harm than good.

[Saint Therese]

I saw a thing on tv about program in Russia to give clean needles to heroin addicted prostitutes. The prostitutes got clean needles and some medical counseling. I think for them its strictly trying to slow the rate of infection of HIV, which is extremely high in Russia.

[Hassan]

[quote name='HisChildForever' post='1762664' date='Jan 26 2009, 06:10 PM']My ex was an addict and besides never sharing, he constantly cleaned his sets with bleach.[/quote]


lol, first of all I hope he does well etc and I know this is a very serious topic, but I had to reread this like three times because I thought, at first, that you meant he would not share his druges with you.

I was a bit confused.

[Hassan]

[quote name='picchick' post='1763217' date='Jan 27 2009, 03:12 AM']Drug users are at an increased risk for HIV/AIDS especially when they reuse needles, use each other's needles. They are at an increased risk for Hepatitis as well. By utalizing the needle exchange program, drug users can decrease their risk and trade old dirty needles for new clean ones. This is will decrease the spread of HIV/AIDS among drug users thus creating a less strain on the health system.
It will also protect those around the drug users. As T-Bone suggests, it will keep doctors, nurses, EMT’s and other health care workers safer. But so does condoms. However, we do not support the use of condoms because it is a way of contraception which is sinful. So is drug usage depending on the nature and mind set of the drug user.
I see it as indirectly encouraging drug use. We cannot change the minds of people. People must think and decide for themselves. However, we should not encourage the use of drugs rather we should encourage these people to seek help. I am sure that such programs do that at the same time. Yet in my mind, the needle exchange program creates reinforcement for negative behavior.
As many of you see, there is a great strain in the health care system. There are so many people who come through the hospital who are unable to pay. The prices just keep rising as well. Why are we able to give out free needles to drug users yet we are not able to vaccinate some kids in the United States? Why is it that families have to struggle to pay a hospital bill but we can hand out free needles to druggies? This is the main thing that frustrates me. Yes, there is more to the health care system than just needles. There is a great deal of waste which contributes to a higher cost of health care. There is in my opinion price gauging that takes place. Yet at the same time, I cannot support a program that gives away free needles to someone using drugs.
The use of drugs is a very complex situation. This is not only about the spread of HIV/AIDS. This is a greater problem than just that. Drugs affect not only that person but their family. It affects the dealers, the higher up people. It is not just one person and one problem. Drugs destroy lives. The needle exchange program may help lower HIV/AIDs but the needle exchange program cannot help these people mend their lives and the lives around them.
How many of these same people are homeless? Jobless? Give a man a fish, you feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish, you feed him for life. How does the needle exchange program help in the bigger picture? It doesn’t.
So yes, there is a good reason for the program: decreasing the spread of HIV/AIDs. However, I cannot support something that in the long run will do more harm than good.[/quote]


I believer one of the most sucessfulldrug rehab programs was in Sweaden where they gave the addicts progressively less Heroin ove an extended time. I think by your standards this would not be allowed despite how unsucessfull "cold turky" programs usually are.

Also, I doubt many addicts will get a job and get off smack if they are dead from AIDS

[BG45]

[quote name='cmotherofpirl' post='1762636' date='Jan 26 2009, 05:48 PM']Only if they are coupled with NA meetings or counseling.[/quote]

Have to agree, otherwise it's sort of just encouraging the addiction instead of fighting it.

[HisChildForever]

[quote name='Hassan' post='1763319' date='Jan 27 2009, 08:04 AM']lol, first of all I hope he does well etc and I know this is a very serious topic, but I had to reread this like three times because I thought, at first, that you meant he would not share his druges with you.[/quote]

GAH. I am not nor ever will be a user. Needless (not trying to pun!) to say, watching him withdraw before rehab was the most pain I have ever seen a person in.

[picchick]

[quote name='Hassan' post='1763320' date='Jan 27 2009, 08:09 AM']I believer one of the most sucessfulldrug rehab programs was in Sweaden where they gave the addicts progressively less Heroin ove an extended time. I think by your standards this would not be allowed despite how unsucessfull "cold turky" programs usually are.

Also, I doubt many addicts will get a job and get off smack if they are dead from AIDS[/quote]

You need to stop assuming you know me.

I never said that addicts need to stop cold turkey did I? I disagree with the needle exchange program which at least from what I read, has the attitude of "Ok so and so...do you want to try counseling today? No? Ok here's new needles."

Furthermore, I work on a detox unit. Cold turkey vs progressively less Heroin...it doesn't matter. THE PERSON NEEDS TO MAKE A RESOLVE. If someone goes through a detox program they give them the medication they need for the detox. DETOX IS DANGEROUS. I would tell anyone who is addicted to drugs to not stop cold turkey. That could be deadly. They would need to go to a hospital or some sort of group to find out where they can go to detox safely.

Am I saying that I want these people to die from AIDS? No...I never said that. I am not saying that it is their fault they should die from the consequences. However, there are many issues that go along with drug use that the needle exchange program does not cover.

I would be fine with the needle exchange program if they had some sort of requirement for the exchange. In order to get new needles you need to attend counseling. In order to get new needles you need to show that you are in some sort of group therapy.

[Hassan]

[quote name='picchick' post='1763422' date='Jan 27 2009, 01:09 PM']You need to stop assuming you know me.

I never said that addicts need to stop cold turkey did I? I disagree with the needle exchange program which at least from what I read, has the attitude of "Ok so and so...do you want to try counseling today? No? Ok here's new needles."

Furthermore, I work on a detox unit. Cold turkey vs progressively less Heroin...it doesn't matter. THE PERSON NEEDS TO MAKE A RESOLVE. If someone goes through a detox program they give them the medication they need for the detox. DETOX IS DANGEROUS. I would tell anyone who is addicted to drugs to not stop cold turkey. That could be deadly. They would need to go to a hospital or some sort of group to find out where they can go to detox safely.[/quote]

ok

Also I have/had drug users/drunks in my family. I know that without resolve nothing will change

[quote]Am I saying that I want these people to die from AIDS? No...I never said that. I am not saying that it is their fault they should die from the consequences. However, there are many issues that go along with drug use that the needle exchange program does not cover.[/quote]

I was responding to this.

[i]How many of these same people are homeless? Jobless? Give a man a fish, you feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish, you feed him for life. How does the needle exchange program help in the bigger picture? It doesn’t. [/i]

my point is that individuals who are dead after contracting AIDS are very unlikely to seek help. The point of the Needle exchange is to retard the spread of AIDS and to perhapse keep them alive long enough that they will have a change of heart.


[quote]I would be fine with the needle exchange program if they had some sort of requirement for the exchange. In order to get new needles you need to attend counseling. In order to get new needles you need to show that you are in some sort of group therapy.[/quote]

that might be nice

[picchick]

[quote name='Hassan' post='1764386' date='Jan 28 2009, 01:16 AM']ok

I was responding to this.

[i]How many of these same people are homeless? Jobless? Give a man a fish, you feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish, you feed him for life. How does the needle exchange program help in the bigger picture? It doesn’t. [/i]

my point is that individuals who are dead after contracting AIDS are very unlikely to seek help. The point of the Needle exchange is to retard the spread of AIDS and to perhapse keep them alive long enough that they will have a change of heart.[/quote]

And my point was that if the needle exchange program has nothing but give out the needles then what is the point? YOu are doing nothing but retard the spread and in the bigger picture of things, that helps very little.

[cmotherofpirl]

The problem are those people who are only interested in needles and not changing their behavior. Do we let them continue their behavior? Lock them up in halfway houses? What is a balanced approach?