Hassan Posted January 28, 2009 Posted January 28, 2009 [quote name='picchick' post='1764415' date='Jan 28 2009, 02:56 AM']And my point was that if the needle exchange program has nothing but give out the needles then what is the point? YOu are doing nothing but retard the spread and in the bigger picture of things, that helps very little.[/quote] I this retarding the spread of AIDS is a fine goal in itself.
picchick Posted January 28, 2009 Posted January 28, 2009 (edited) [quote name='Hassan' post='1764536' date='Jan 28 2009, 10:54 AM']I this retarding the spread of AIDS is a fine goal in itself.[/quote] Condoms helps retard the spread of AIDS too in most cases. Does that make using condoms an ok thing to do? Edited January 28, 2009 by picchick
Veridicus Posted January 30, 2009 Posted January 30, 2009 Systematically castrating all the men with AIDS in africa would quite quickly decrease the AIDS problem there as well. Ends do not justify means. Its called Principle of Double Effect. Dig.
picchick Posted January 31, 2009 Posted January 31, 2009 [quote name='Veridicus' post='1766587' date='Jan 30 2009, 02:14 AM']Systematically castrating all the men with AIDS in africa would quite quickly decrease the AIDS problem there as well. Ends do not justify means. Its called Principle of Double Effect. Dig.[/quote] I was waiting for you to reply to this. Castrating won't help though...
Tinkerlina Posted January 31, 2009 Posted January 31, 2009 [quote name='Lil Red' post='1762405' date='Jan 26 2009, 02:51 PM']+J.M.J.+ are needle exchange programs a good or bad idea?[/quote] Hmmm, I'll have to think about this. My initial reaction is no, because it seems to "condone" drug use. However, in the fact of an overwhelming problem, it seems like it might be a short term solution that would result in saving lives. -Katie
Lil Red Posted January 31, 2009 Author Posted January 31, 2009 +J.M.J.+ what about 'safe injection sites'?
picchick Posted January 31, 2009 Posted January 31, 2009 [quote name='picchick' post='1766939' date='Jan 30 2009, 07:24 PM']I was waiting for you to reply to this. Castrating won't help though...[/quote] Wait...I guess in a way it would...
Tinkerlina Posted January 31, 2009 Posted January 31, 2009 [quote name='picchick' post='1767035' date='Jan 30 2009, 09:58 PM']Wait...I guess in a way it would...[/quote] Lol. Good luck with that quest...-Katie
picchick Posted January 31, 2009 Posted January 31, 2009 (edited) [quote name='Lil Red' post='1767004' date='Jan 30 2009, 08:30 PM']+J.M.J.+ what about 'safe injection sites'?[/quote] Do people know that it costs about $50+ to administer an injection in a clinic or hospital setting? Again, inflation but that is just one more thing that prevents children and adults alike from seeking health care. Yet we are going to sanction safe injection sites where needles and health care will be provided to drug users? Again, if there was some sort of requirements set up then I could see using it but where is the money coming from for these facilities? There are people in the Appalachian region who have no health care. Children in that area die from disease that we have been vaccinated for. Things that are no longer deadly for us are still deadly for the people in that region. AND THIS IS IN THE UNITED STATES! I cannot see money going towards this when people are suffering for a lack of basic medical care. I understand addictionology. I understand the disease process. I do not see this as helpful to stopping drug use. People die from the trafficking of drugs. How can we support the use of drugs and an addiction? Again, maybe if it was used with a rehab approach it would be different. However, the programs that I have read about in the US has no such thing. They have screenings and then hand outs. Sorry, that is not how I work. Edited January 31, 2009 by picchick
picchick Posted January 31, 2009 Posted January 31, 2009 I should also add that many of the people using the needle exchange program cannot afford health care themselves. Furthermore, they have several comorbidities such as diabetes, malnutrition, heart issues. Why do we not work on treating these? Diabetes takes such a toll on the health care system.
Tinkerlina Posted January 31, 2009 Posted January 31, 2009 [quote name='picchick' post='1767048' date='Jan 30 2009, 10:08 PM']I should also add that many of the people using the needle exchange program cannot afford health care themselves. Furthermore, they have several comorbidities such as diabetes, malnutrition, heart issues. Why do we not work on treating these? Diabetes takes such a toll on the health care system.[/quote] That's a very good point. Right now I have to enroll in Grad School by fall or go without insurance until I can enroll. And I'm the least of those affected by healthcare accessibility. I do think we need to address basic issues like those you mentioned first and foremost. Diabetes, until I worked in healthcare and saw it up close, I didn't realize the incessant repercussions it has-the stasis ulcers and such, it is so horrible. -Katie
Veridicus Posted February 2, 2009 Posted February 2, 2009 [quote name='picchick' post='1767035' date='Jan 30 2009, 08:58 PM']Wait...I guess in a way it would...[/quote] In a strictly materialist pragmatic sense it would cease the spread of AIDS in africa. Fortunately, I do not prescribe to materialistic pragmatism nor any of the ideas promulgated by the fascist eugenicists who typically promote such measures (Margaret Sanger comes to mind...)
Veridicus Posted February 2, 2009 Posted February 2, 2009 [quote name='picchick' post='1767048' date='Jan 30 2009, 09:08 PM']I should also add that many of the people using the needle exchange program cannot afford health care themselves. Furthermore, they have several comorbidities such as diabetes, malnutrition, heart issues. Why do we not work on treating these? Diabetes takes such a toll on the health care system.[/quote] I think Fulton Sheen expressed it best. We no longer have "sin" in America, but "sickness" by the modern intellect's reasoning. And our best attempts to treat this sickness is to pander to the behaviors which manifest the "sickness" because it doesn't respect individual liberty to hold other people accountable to your religious/ethical perogatives. And our medical system is backwords in that it only thinks in terms of responding to symptoms rather than insisting on prevention. The other side of the coin is that patients very often simply refuse to comply to recommended lifestyle changes. We have 'sick' people who the moral authorities and medical authorities let sink into self-destruction, all the while congratulating ourselves on the "progressiveness" of the freedoms we allow people to express (eat what you want, lay on your butt all day, do drugs...whatever you want we'll try to accomodate). Ugh....!
picchick Posted February 3, 2009 Posted February 3, 2009 [quote name='Veridicus' post='1769823' date='Feb 2 2009, 01:35 PM']I think Fulton Sheen expressed it best. We no longer have "sin" in America, but "sickness" by the modern intellect's reasoning. And our best attempts to treat this sickness is to pander to the behaviors which manifest the "sickness" because it doesn't respect individual liberty to hold other people accountable to your religious/ethical perogatives. And our medical system is backwords in that it only thinks in terms of responding to symptoms rather than insisting on prevention. The other side of the coin is that patients very often simply refuse to comply to recommended lifestyle changes. We have 'sick' people who the moral authorities and medical authorities let sink into self-destruction, all the while congratulating ourselves on the "progressiveness" of the freedoms we allow people to express (eat what you want, lay on your butt all day, do drugs...whatever you want we'll try to accomodate). Ugh....![/quote] Because there is no money in prevention.
Veridicus Posted February 3, 2009 Posted February 3, 2009 [quote name='picchick' post='1770797' date='Feb 3 2009, 01:41 AM']Because there is no money in prevention.[/quote] Bingo.
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