Muslim Student Seeks Place To Pray Boy's Mother Fights For His Rig

[HisChildForever]

[quote name='Sacred Music Man' post='1787152' date='Feb 21 2009, 01:29 AM']HCF, you should know better. Stop being off topic. This thread is about people's right to private prayer in schools.[/quote]

Excuse me? Are you going to take the time to lecture Hassan, Cmom, and Mortify as well, or am I the only one privy to your scolding?

If you would go back to Post #15 you will see that Hassan had mentioned Muhammad. (And he mentioned Muhammad because of something CatherineM said.) I had stumbled upon this thread at that point and asked a question because Hassan made it sound as if Muhammad = pedophile = stereotype, when in fact I had thought (and still think) otherwise.

Edited February 21, 2009 by HisChildForever

[Hassan]

[quote name='HisChildForever' post='1787153' date='Feb 21 2009, 02:31 AM']Stop trying to insult my intelligence.[/quote]

I did not.

[quote]Sarah was unable to have children and I assume felt like a complete disappointment, a shame to her husband.[/quote]

ok

[quote]She offered him her maid in her place so her husband's line would not end (undoubtedly feeling that it would be her fault if this occurred).[/quote]

ok

[quote]Later Sarah treated Hagar poorly which obviously insinuates that even with the right intentions, Abraham sleeping with Hagar was a poor choice.[/quote]

It was a poor choice? If someone besides Abraham was in this situation today you would only feel it was a poor choice, due to the frictions that they would cause, for his half sister, whome he married, to give him her "maid" to have sex with?

[quote]Even while Sarah was trying to do something good for Abraham, ultimately the child would be considered her child, therefore she would not feel public shame of being unable to produce a child. Besides that selfishness, jealousy ensued. God, of course, made the situation right by caring for Hagar and Ishmael.[/quote]

I really don't think you have said what moral judgement you would make about a man today marying his half sister and then impreginating her maid who was given to him to his "line" would be continued.

[dominicansoul]

[quote name='Hassan' post='1787103' date='Feb 21 2009, 12:38 AM']Let me try.

indoctrinating little children with the beleif that if they fail to maintain their faith or to live up to a particular moral standard they will spend an eternity in hell being tortured is child abuse, period!

that YOU would defend your church engaging in such practices is disgusting

that's kinda fun [/quote]
you think this is clever? you suppose it is child abuse...that is your opinion, but raping a 9 year old child is definitely and absolutely without a doubt child abuse at it's worst...you obviously can't admit that mohammad had a sexual perversion, so you try and demean our religion?

tsk. tsk.

in some ways you are brilliant, my friend, but when it comes to defending islam at all costs...you lose a little of that said brilliance...

...i would expect more from you...

[Hassan]

[quote name='HisChildForever' post='1787155' date='Feb 21 2009, 02:36 AM']Excuse me? Are you going to take the time to lecture Hassan, Cmom, and Mortify as well, or am I the only one privy to your scolding?

If you would go back to Post #15 you will see that Hassan had mentioned Muhammad. (And he mentioned Muhammad because of something CatherineM said.) I had stumbled upon this thread at that point and asked a question because Hassan made it sound as if Muhammad = pedophile = stereotype, when in fact I had thought (and still think) otherwise.[/quote]


I don't constantly lecture people about "staying on topic". Not seriously anyway.

I guess he found it hypocritical.

Not to mention that CathM and I's conversation was on topic (or at least not off the map) as it was about Muslim receiving special attention because people were affraid of them, which she felt was a factor in this case, you turned it into a thread about Muhammad's relation with Aisha.

It would be kind of like if I went on a tirade about Jews because of something an individual Jew did after all m self rightous lecturing on not judging all members of a religion by an individuals actions.

Edited February 21, 2009 by Hassan

[Hassan]

[quote name='dominicansoul' post='1787158' date='Feb 21 2009, 02:40 AM']you think this is clever? you suppose it is child abuse...that is your opinion, but raping a 9 year old child is definitely and absolutely without a doubt child abuse at it's worst...you obviously can't admit that mohammad had a sexual perversion, so you try and demean our religion?

tsk. tsk.

in some ways you are brilliant, my friend, but when it comes to defending islam at all costs...you lose a little of that said brilliance...

...i would expect more from you...[/quote]


I do not consider teaching children about hell to be child abuse. if my point was unclear with that I am sorry. My point was not to demean your religion. Like with Abraham I would not consider him a bad man for what he did. My point was only that it would be unfair to him to extend our cultural norms to him, when he lived in a radically different context. The same with Muhammad.

I'd be happy to have a serious discussion about the problems with Islam, in my eyes, if I did not feel it would just turn into a Islam bash-a-fest

[HisChildForever]

[quote name='Hassan' post='1787157' date='Feb 21 2009, 01:39 AM']I really don't think you have said what moral judgement you would make about a man today marying his half sister and then impreginating her maid who was given to him to his "line" would be continued.[/quote]

First, it would be the man [b]and[/b] the woman who would be morally judged. The wife urged the husband to sleep with another woman; and the husband accepted the invitation. Today, yes, it is an immoral act. Back then there was great emphasis on continuing your blood line and there was great shame in being unable to bear children. But raping a nine-year-old girl in Muhammad's time and raping a nine-year-old girl in our time are both inexcusable.

[quote name='Hassan' post='1787160' date='Feb 21 2009, 01:41 AM']I don't constantly lecture people about "staying on topic". Not seriously anyway.

I guess he found it hypocritical.[/quote]

Hassan, I was not the one who nudged this thread into the "off topic" zone. And if there was a problem, CMom (a Moderator) would have said something; rather, she has participated in this discussion.

[Hassan]

[quote name='HisChildForever' post='1787166' date='Feb 21 2009, 02:48 AM']First, it would be the man [b]and[/b] the woman who would be morally judged. The wife urged the husband to sleep with another woman; and the husband accepted the invitation. Today, yes, it is an immoral act. Back then there was great emphasis on continuing your blood line and there was great shame in being unable to bear children. But raping a nine-year-old girl in Muhammad's time and raping a nine-year-old girl in our time are both inexcusable[/quote]


oh now that's interesting. So when your prophet does something "immoral" then cultural norms must be taken into account.



[quote]Hassan, I was not the one who nudged this thread into the "off topic" zone. And if there was a problem, CMom (a Moderator) would have said something; rather, she has participated in this discussion.[/quote]



whatever helps you sleep at night as they say.

Edited February 21, 2009 by Hassan

[HisChildForever]

[quote name='Hassan' post='1787170' date='Feb 21 2009, 01:53 AM']oh now that's interesting. So when your prophet does something "immoral" then cultural norms must be taken into account.[/quote]

So it was the cultural norm to rape little girls?

[jeffpugh]

I just find it hypocritical, since you seem to flag people down for it a lot. I see others off topic, but I'm reminding you of the sword you usually wield on this phorum. You live by it, you die by it. Anyways, whatev.

[Hassan]

[quote name='HisChildForever' post='1787171' date='Feb 21 2009, 02:55 AM']So it was the cultural norm to rape little girls?[/quote]

It was a cultural norm to may girls much, much younger than would be accectable today. I don't know what you mean by "rape" in this context.

[HisChildForever]

[quote name='Sacred Music Man' post='1787172' date='Feb 21 2009, 01:56 AM']I just find it hypocritical, since you seem to flag people down for it a lot. I see others off topic, but I'm reminding you of the sword you usually wield on this phorum. You live by it, you die by it. Anyways, whatev.[/quote]

Let me get this straight. You came to a thread that has drifted from its original discussion to provide an off topic lecture about how terrible it is to be off topic? Cute.

[HisChildForever]

[quote name='Hassan' post='1787173' date='Feb 21 2009, 01:57 AM']It was a cultural norm to may girls much, much younger than would be accectable today. I don't know what you mean by "rape" in this context.[/quote]

Do you think a nine-year-old is mature enough to consent to sex?

(I need to sleep, have a good night!)

[Hassan]

[quote name='HisChildForever' post='1787175' date='Feb 21 2009, 03:03 AM']Let me get this straight. You came to a thread that has drifted from its original discussion to provide an off topic lecture about how terrible it is to be off topic? Cute.[/quote]


If you don't want to admit that your actions here are a tad.....ironic then why not just let it go. I think he was just asking us to go back on topic why make a federal case out of it.

[Maggyie]

Cultural norms should not apply in either case. What Abraham did was just as immoral back then as it is now. I don't believe it was God who told them to make that arrangement. The Old Testament is full of people making sinful mistakes, just because we revere Abraham does not mean we can really excuse his behavior in this case. Explain maybe but excuse, no. Same with Muhammad I would think.

[Hassan]

[quote name='HisChildForever' post='1787176' date='Feb 21 2009, 03:04 AM']Do you think a nine-year-old is mature enough to consent to sex?

(I need to sleep, have a good night!)[/quote]

no

you too

Edited February 21, 2009 by Hassan