Amanda Palmer On Abortion, Rape, Art, And Humour (and Censorship)

[Hassan]

[quote name='takebacktonight' post='1794948' date='Mar 2 2009, 02:37 AM']In terms of the video.... the songs is about a teenage girls rememberings (or mis-rememberings) of what actually happened. It is very much reminiscent and of course this fictional little girl would not have actually been looking bored during either event.

Miss Palmer then continues on to make clear her intent for the song and video. She obviously does feel as though rape or abortion are not serious things. She has been a victim of both, but that is besides the point. Rather, she is approaching these subjects in a VERY different way in an attempt [b]to get people talking[/b] about these issues. Religious people, I would guess are very used to talking about this stuff, but lost kids are not.

This is where media lit comes in I think...we really need to look past what we see and think critically about what the intent is. That is why I posted here. From reading the posts I know people here are willing to discuss and dissect and think critically.


In terms of the feminist thing....yes I definitely believe you can be a feminist and pro-life (although my ex-Catholic, former women's studies prof would kill me). No quibbles there. I also do not believe in making light of the issues of abuse, rape, abortion either.[/quote]


yep

[i]abortion is serious. rape is serious. lots of things are serious. do they think i’m blind?

the song isn’t even so much ABOUT those topics, it’s about denial, it’s about a girl who can’t find it in herself to take her situation seriously.
that girl exists, everywhere. you probably know her. you’ve probably met her. you might be her.[/i]

[takebacktonight]

[quote name='Hassan' post='1794947' date='Mar 2 2009, 01:37 AM']yes, see here

[i] sat down one day in or around 2002 and wrote a tongue-in-cheek, ironic up-tempo pop song.
a song about a girl who got drunk, was date raped, and had an abortion.
she sings about these things lightly and joyfully and says that she doesn’t care that these things have happened to her because oasis, (her favorite band) has sent her an autographed photo in the mail. and to make things even better (!!), her [mod]Language. --Era Might[/mod] friend melissa, who told the whole school about the abortion, is really jealous.

if you cannot sense the irony in this song, you’re about two intelligence points above a kumquat.[/i][/quote]


I don't think she needed to add that last part though... Insults are never the way to start a dialogue.

My favorite quote is...

"... i think it makes people uncomfortable to hear the truth about a very real and sick situation:
if you don’t know - or have never encountered - a teenager who is going through intense heavy experiences (like rape, abortion, eating disorders, abuse, fill-in-the-blank)
and is laughing these things off like THEY DON’T MATTER, then you are not ALIVE and AWAKE and living on this planet.
IT’S HAPPENING EVERYWHERE. i see it all the time. it’s called being a confused teenager. it’s real. it smells of elderberries."

Not one of my students appeared traumatized from the outside, but I tell you, a good 85% of them were. They dealt through heavy makeup, sarcasm, and jokes.

[Nihil Obstat]

Ugh... Amanda Palmer.
She's from the Dresden Dolls, and extrement musically creative and talented.

Unfortunately, knowing the scene she's a part of, I more or less expect some very... intense viewpoints.

[HisChildForever]

[quote name='Hassan' post='1794947' date='Mar 2 2009, 01:37 AM']if you cannot sense the irony in this song, you’re about two intelligence points above a kumquat.[/i][/quote]

Very nice, Hassan. I like how you were sure to include this.

[Madame Vengier]

[quote name='USAirwaysIHS' post='1794927' date='Mar 2 2009, 02:21 AM']Allow me to add that HCF is a bona fide feminist.
(References available upon request)

[/quote]


Exactly what is THAT supposed to mean?

[TotusTuusMaria]

[quote name='Madame Vengier' post='1795228' date='Mar 2 2009, 03:59 PM']Exactly what is THAT supposed to mean?[/quote]

He already said what it meant on page 1. He said it so that the OP would not think we were all non-shoe wearing hillbillies who think women should be at home and Jesus hates those who are raped and have abortions....

.... I got it.

[TotusTuusMaria]

After first watching the video I wouldn't want to watch it again. I don't care for it.

I understand though what she is trying to do. I understand what she is trying to portray. And I get that it is dark humor. I don't laugh at it though... I don't think it is that kind of "humor." It is more like "prove-a-point" humor not "hahaha" humor.

I don't know though if it will really do what she wants it to do though... like change hearts and minds of people encountering the "hurt" people or even make the "hurt" people feel safer and more willing to deal with what they have gone through.

[HisChildForever]

[quote name='TotusTuusMaria' post='1795263' date='Mar 2 2009, 02:47 PM']He said it so that the OP would not think we were all non-shoe wearing hillbillies who think women should be at home and Jesus hates those who are raped and have abortions....[/quote]

And how does what I said suggest that everyone else on Phatmass is the above?

[HisChildForever]

[quote name='TotusTuusMaria' post='1795270' date='Mar 2 2009, 02:51 PM']After first watching the video I wouldn't want to watch it again. I don't care for it.

I understand though what she is trying to do. I understand what she is trying to portray. And I get that it is dark humor. I don't laugh at it though... I don't think it is that kind of "humor." It is more like "prove-a-point" humor not "hahaha" humor.

I don't know though if it will really do what she wants it to do though... like change hearts and minds of people encountering the "hurt" people or even make the "hurt" people feel safer and more willing to deal with what they have gone through.[/quote]

I have to say that I expected a much different opinion from you.

[takebacktonight]

[quote name='TotusTuusMaria' post='1795270' date='Mar 2 2009, 02:51 PM']After first watching the video I wouldn't want to watch it again. I don't care for it.

I understand though what she is trying to do. I understand what she is trying to portray. And I get that it is dark humor. I don't laugh at it though... I don't think it is that kind of "humor." It is more like "prove-a-point" humor not "hahaha" humor.

I don't know though if it will really do what she wants it to do though... like change hearts and minds of people encountering the "hurt" people or even make the "hurt" people feel safer and more willing to deal with what they have gone through.[/quote]


Trust me...I didn't laugh either. I actually cried when I first saw it. Although she does defend the use of humour when dealing with hard stuff, I think her intentions were deeper than that.

As for changing hearts and minds...it's hard to say... It seemed to generate a lot of response and reflection on her site and I know other people are blogging about the censorship aspect of it...

[takebacktonight]

[quote name='HisChildForever' post='1795305' date='Mar 2 2009, 04:24 PM']And how does what I said suggest that everyone else on Phatmass is the above?[/quote]


I don't think that you suggested anything of the sort.



Feminism is cool... Catholic feminists are cool... Catholic non-feminists are cool, non-Catholic non-....well you get it.


If I thought people here weren't intelligent, critical thinkers I wouldn't have posted here. I also wouldn't post here if I didn't want to hear opposing viewpoints.

[Hassan]

[quote name='HisChildForever' post='1795225' date='Mar 2 2009, 02:54 PM']Very nice, Hassan. I like how you were sure to include this.[/quote]


It was not for you, that was just part of her statment. Take offense to it if you want, I already said I felt like it was in the vein of British dark humor which is something you need to have a cultural taste for. It's like how a lot of my friends don't get British sitcoms, I was introduced to them from my moms family and get the jokes, a lot of them don't, it has nothing to do with inteligence, it's just culture.

I don't get a lot of Eastern European jokes.

Let me say it this way, if you took offense to it I am sorry, but it was not aimed at you or anyone else, it was simply what I felt to be relevent in her thing to the discussion.

[Hassan]

[quote name='TotusTuusMaria' post='1795263' date='Mar 2 2009, 03:47 PM']He already said what it meant on page 1. He said it so that the OP would not think we were all non-shoe wearing hillbillies who think women should be at home and Jesus hates those who are raped and have abortions....

.... I got it. [/quote]


I don't care what Pio and Maria say, you're pretty bright

[TotusTuusMaria]

[quote name='HisChildForever' post='1795305' date='Mar 2 2009, 04:24 PM']And how does what I said suggest that everyone else on Phatmass is the above?[/quote]

What I said did not take into consideration what you said. Actually, I don't even remember what you said. It just took into consideration what USAirways said and Madame's comments on what he said.

I was just pointing out that USAirways already said what they meant, so the whole "What is that suppose to mean?" has already been answered.

I think your reading to much into what I said. It certainly had nothing to do with you or what you said.

Edited March 6, 2009 by TotusTuusMaria

[TotusTuusMaria]

[quote name='HisChildForever' post='1795306' date='Mar 2 2009, 04:26 PM']I have to say that I expected a much different opinion from you.[/quote]

Well... what can I say? I am full of surprises.

Seriously though, what opinion would that be?

[TotusTuusMaria]

[quote name='takebacktonight' post='1795307' date='Mar 2 2009, 04:26 PM']Trust me...I didn't laugh either. I actually cried when I first saw it. Although she does defend the use of humour when dealing with hard stuff, I think her intentions were deeper than that.

As for changing hearts and minds...it's hard to say... It seemed to generate a lot of response and reflection on her site and I know other people are blogging about the censorship aspect of it...[/quote]

I think it will touch very few that need to be touched the most. Those that need to be touched and helped by this are the ones who have actually gone through what she has gone through and try daily to repress memories and emotions related to being raped/having an abortion. What this video does is show the insanity behind being raped, having an abortion, and caring the utmost about a concert or other "frivolous" thing in the end. These people are not dealing with what they are going through. It's insane. And you said you were a teacher and see this all of the time. You also can sympathize with the hurt and pain they are going through. So, this video touched you as it showed how pitiful and insane they are living. However, someone that is living this way... I don't know if it will make them think about how they are living though or even clue them in to the insanity of their actions (have an abortion and then swoon over a concert).

Anyone who laughs at it in a "hahaha" way truly is cruel. I think by her making this video she is even more so "laughing up" what she has gone through and not properly dealing with it. She could do a lot more for women in her situation.

I haven't come to a conclusion on what she is trying to do really. Is she trying to prove a point or is she laughing it up... I don't know. One is tolerable... the other is sick.

[TotusTuusMaria]

[quote name='Hassan' post='1796061' date='Mar 3 2009, 02:57 AM']I don't care what Pio and Maria say, you're pretty bright












[/quote]

always belittling me.

[takebacktonight]

[quote name='TotusTuusMaria' post='1799283' date='Mar 6 2009, 08:00 PM']However, someone that is living this way... I don't know if it will make them think about how they are living though or even clue them in to the insanity of their actions (have an abortion and then swoon over a concert).[/quote]

There is no way I could or would show this to a group of teenagers (nor could I show them any anti/pro-abortion videos period.) I meant that if they happened to see it on tv or on the internet, they would 'get it'.

I just don't know...like those companies said, that it makes a mockery of abortion and rape.

In terms of my girls, they are lower-level and underprivileged. The video does, as you mention, imply the lunacy of the character's life. The exaggerated approach of the video might be just what they need to wake themselves up and realize "hey, I need help, and I need it now". I think they would get the irony of the abortion/rape/ Oasis autograph situation.

Of course, I can only presume about the young people I have worked with. (One of my former student was incredulous when I told her that no, I had never been in a fistfight!)

The video doesn't show people dealing with their issues no... but I think the first step is actually getting these girls to realize that they need to stop hiding, reach out, and talk.


Any recommendations for other videos that are maybe less provocative but would still pack a dramatic punch?

[HisChildForever]

[quote name='TotusTuusMaria' post='1799267' date='Mar 6 2009, 06:40 PM']Seriously though, what opinion would that be?[/quote]

I expected you to speak of the dignity of women, how crude the music video was, and regardless of the "positive" message the video is trying to convey, issues such as rape and abortion should not be expressed as routine daily activities.

[HisChildForever]

[quote name='takebacktonight' post='1799295' date='Mar 6 2009, 07:34 PM']The video does, as you mention, imply the lunacy of the character's life. The exaggerated approach of the video might be just what they need to wake themselves up and realize "hey, I need help, and I need it now". I think they would get the irony of the abortion/rape/ Oasis autograph situation.[/quote]

The exaggerated approach of the video might also be for shock value and publicity.