Amanda Palmer On Abortion, Rape, Art, And Humour (and Censorship)

[takebacktonight]

[quote name='HisChildForever' post='1799563' date='Mar 7 2009, 12:43 AM']The lead character's bored facial expressions during each traumatic "chapter" of the video implied a "nothing new here" attitude.[/quote]


I agree.. She could be making a commentary on the pervasivness of such violent acts (or maybe not).

or, perhaps she's mimicing a girl who has been so scarred, she emits zero response to any emotional event, replacing it with the socially acceptable teenage reactions of boredom and hypercheerfullness.

(and to some girls, the nothing new attitude is a reality... they *have* been raped more than once)

or maybe my psychology degree is colouring my judgement too much.

Edited March 7, 2009 by takebacktonight

[HisChildForever]

[quote name='TotusTuusMaria' post='1799565' date='Mar 7 2009, 12:44 AM']I am not getting that vibe from the video. Yes it is shocking, but I don't think she made the video just for that. I mean, this is a woman who has been raped. She has had an abortion. She also considers herself an artist (not saying I agree, but eh...). She is not going to make something without trying to get a point across, especially something that affects her so closely. If she did make it just for shock value and publicity then it is even more ironic because she herself is treating the issues she seems to point out in the video as being treated insanely as, just that, insane.[/quote]

I said it [b]might also be[/b], not that it [b]was only for[/b]. Based on her experiences, she could have made a music video depicting great trauma and sorrow, but instead she opted for a shocking, controversial portrayal.

[TotusTuusMaria]

Yeah, it is crude. Yeah, it is not my cup of tea.

It has a message though. I don't like the way the message is put across, but it does have one and an important one.

If it doesn't have a message though and this poor girl who has experienced such traumatic events as she has and she is mocking them... well then yeah, HCF, you are right. It is sick and we should not pay any attention to it.

I just can't see a woman who has been raped/had an abortion making this kind of video and not, by making it, wanting the public to hear some type of message she wants to tell them about what she has been through.

[TotusTuusMaria]

[quote name='HisChildForever' post='1799574' date='Mar 7 2009, 01:49 AM']I said it [b]might also be[/b], not that it [b]was only for[/b]. Based on her experiences, she could have made a music video depicting great trauma and sorrow, but instead she opted for a shocking, controversial portrayal.[/quote]

1) still don't even think it is her primary reason. normal people doesn't mock their real life experiences for shock value and to stir up controversy. this means something to her.

2) Very true. She could have done that. I probably would have liked it better and it probably would help people a lot more if she would have.

[takebacktonight]

[quote name='HisChildForever' post='1799574' date='Mar 7 2009, 01:49 AM']I said it [b]might also be[/b], not that it [b]was only for[/b]. Based on her experiences, she could have made a music video depicting great trauma and sorrow, but instead she opted for a shocking, controversial portrayal.[/quote]

Yeah she actually addresses this:

"think about it. if they heard the same lyrics against the backdrop of a very sad and liliting piano, maybe with some tear-jerking strings thrown in for good measure, would they take issue?

imagine these lyrics to the tune of “strange fruit”. or “yesterday”.

“when i got my abortion, i brought along my boyfriend
we got there an hour before the appointment”…
(cue swelling strings, tears well up in singer’s eyes)"

and later on:

"would this make people happy?
maybe. it would be within a context they could rely on, feel safe in, write off.
“she’s sad! of course she’s sad! she had an abortion! abortion is sad! abortion is personal and emotional! look, she is expressing directly the way she should feel about this! and we don’t joke about things that are personal and emotional and sad!”

wait, what?

don’t we?

i do.

i have to.
you’re beaver dam right this stuff* makes people uncomfortable.
it makes people uncomfortable to hear ANYONE talking about abortion and rape bluntly, much less talking about it LIKE THIS…."

Edited March 7, 2009 by takebacktonight

[TotusTuusMaria]

[quote name='takebacktonight' post='1799581' date='Mar 7 2009, 01:56 AM']Yeah she actually addresses this:

"think about it. if they heard the same lyrics against the backdrop of a very sad and liliting piano, maybe with some tear-jerking strings thrown in for good measure, would they take issue?

imagine these lyrics to the tune of “strange fruit”. or “yesterday”.

“when i got my abortion, i brought along my boyfriend
we got there an hour before the appointment”…
(cue swelling strings, tears well up in singer’s eyes)"

and later on:

"would this make people happy?
maybe. it would be within a context they could rely on, feel safe in, write off.
“she’s sad! of course she’s sad! she had an abortion! abortion is sad! abortion is personal and emotional! look, she is expressing directly the way she should feel about this! and we don’t joke about things that are personal and emotional and sad!”

wait, what?

don’t we?

i do.

i have to."[/quote]

Poor girl.

I think I would have liked it better had it been behind a piano and made out to be like "strange fruit" or something... I don't think it would have went the way she thinks it would have.

[HisChildForever]

[quote name='TotusTuusMaria' post='1799579' date='Mar 7 2009, 12:54 AM']1) still don't even think it is her primary reason. normal people doesn't mock their real life experiences for shock value and to stir up controversy. this means something to her.[/quote]

I never said it was her primary reason.

[takebacktonight]

[quote name='TotusTuusMaria' post='1799585' date='Mar 7 2009, 01:08 AM']Poor girl.

I think I would have liked it better had it been behind a piano and made out to be like "strange fruit" or something... I don't think it would have went the way she thinks it would have.[/quote]


Yes, I do feel bad for her.

But maybe the song would have turned into just another bad Evanescence whiny emo song...and maybe she thought it was too important to get lost in the crowd. She obviously thought it was important enough to make it a single.

I dunno about it all. I allow very little time to be shocked and scandalized about anything... I tend to go "ooh...that's bad. that's evil. Now let's get our heads together to change hearts and minds". I know liberal people that just sit and grumble about the oppressive right wing, and I know right wingers that just sit and grumble about the morally bankrupt left wing. Boring.

EDIT: That probably came out wrong...I wasn't implying that anyone here was needlessly scandalized, etc. I should have added that I am just musing about why I personally didn't have such a strong reaction to the video.

Edited March 7, 2009 by takebacktonight

[TotusTuusMaria]

nevermind.

Edited March 7, 2009 by TotusTuusMaria

[TotusTuusMaria]

[quote name='takebacktonight' post='1799589' date='Mar 7 2009, 02:17 AM']Yes, I do feel bad for her.

But maybe the song would have turned into just another bad Evanescence whiny emo song...and maybe she thought it was too important to get lost in the crowd. She obviously thought it was important enough to make it a single.[/quote]

Yeah, I can see your point.

I really don't think it would have... at least not anymore lost in the crowd then this one is going to be. I just think if she would have done a more serious version then it would have been taken more seriously and she would have gotten a better audience. I mean, for the majority of people in the world this isn't going to be a song/video they remember or even know about. I think she would have gotten a bigger audience with a more serious song. Her message certainly wouldn't be being debated either.

However, like she said... she has to laugh. Very sad.

[TotusTuusMaria]

[quote name='HisChildForever' post='1799586' date='Mar 7 2009, 02:11 AM']I never said it was her primary reason.[/quote]

ok.

[HisChildForever]

[quote name='TotusTuusMaria' post='1799597' date='Mar 7 2009, 01:28 AM']You dismissed what we said and said she was doing it for controversy and publicity.[/quote]

[b]The exaggerated approach of the video [u]might also be[/u] for shock value and publicity. [/b]

No where did I say that she created the video ONLY FOR controversy and publicity.

[quote]Then you said you didn't mean that was the only reason... then I can only assume you meant it to be the primary reason.[/quote]

How can you possibly make that assumption? If I said controversy and publicity were not her ONLY reasons, I mean just that - she had OTHER reasons as well. This does NOT mean that controversy and publicity were her PRIMARY reasons.

[quote]What is the reason you think she did it for if not for what you already said?[/quote]

Many musicians take their life experiences and put them into their music. Amanda Palmer clearly did this.

[HisChildForever]

[quote name='TotusTuusMaria' post='1799600' date='Mar 7 2009, 01:33 AM'][b]I just think if she would have done a more serious version then it would have been taken more seriously and she would have gotten a better audience.[/b] I mean, for the majority of people in the world this isn't going to be a song/video they remember or even know about. I think she would have gotten a bigger audience with a more serious song. [b]Her message certainly wouldn't be being debated either.[/b][/quote]

Yeah this has basically been my entire point.

[takebacktonight]

[quote name='TotusTuusMaria' post='1799600' date='Mar 7 2009, 02:33 AM']Yeah, I can see your point.

I really don't think it would have... at least not anymore lost in the crowd then this one is going to be. I just think if she would have done a more serious version then it would have been taken more seriously and she would have gotten a better audience. I mean, for the majority of people in the world this isn't going to be a song/video they remember or even know about. I think she would have gotten a bigger audience with a more serious song. Her message certainly wouldn't be being debated either.

However, like she said... she has to laugh. Very sad. [/quote]

I can see your point as well insofar as we wouldn't be debating her point. However I don't always buy the 'seriousness begets seriousness' argument and I don't in this case. (I could make a snarky Bush joke here but I won't.)

When she says she needs to laugh...it's again simply because that is her coping mechanism for getting through the day...not because there is anything inherently funny about what happened to her. She's challenging the notion that sadness is the only healthy way to process traumatic events.

And her point (that there is more than one way to move on) would be valid...

If there wasn't a God...the ultimate healer...

No professional therapist/psychiatrist would ever say that laughing about your abortion is healthy....and yet so few of them acknowledge that God is in the mix..

[HisChildForever]

To further explain the "shock value" I was curious to see if she does this with any of her other songs.

[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pJVWSu5Nfi8&feature=channel"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pJVWSu5Nfi8...feature=channel[/url]

This song is about a video game addict. If you visit the popular "Song Meanings" website (the specific lyrics discussion here: [url="http://www.songmeanings.net/songs/view/3530822107858691149/"]http://www.songmeanings.net/songs/view/3530822107858691149/[/url] ) you will see that the general opinion of her fans is that the song is either about reality versus fantasy, war, being a hero, etc. A couple of people mentioned that they heard Amanda was inspired to write this particular song because she knew of someone who played real guitar on stage and then afterward played Guitar Hero.

However, as you will see if you watch the music video, the set is a high school and the characters are dead high school students (either dead on the floor or animated corpses playing guitar) - obviously bringing to mind the painful reality of school shootings. The music video and the lyrics do not exactly mesh well at all. I feel that Amanda Palmer may write about very real things (sometimes very painful things) but instead of relying on the message of her lyrics she creates an "in your face" video to get herself and her message noticed.