Do You Really Respect God?

[ayed]

In the Name of Allah, the Most gracious , the Most merciful

I have touched upon some topics concerning the creed and belief of the Catholic Denomination and I have understood how they see our God.

--The Maker of the universe, and all things in it, is only one God .

--Muslims and Christians all have only one God .
--We, Muslims,believe in one God and we name Him”Allah”. “He begets not, nor was He begotten”.He is in the sky on His Throne above the seventh heaven.He is Omnipotent , Omniscient and Invisible.
--Christians believe in one God .They name Him “God”

--So far so good!Now, let us jump into the problematic questions :

--Christians see Jesus as a son of God , and the Holy Spirit as a God.So, they worship God “and Jesus “and the Holy Spirit. In fact, They are three Gods not one .Catholics have to pass through more than 30 steps , confirming and negatung the three Gods so as to assert that they have only one God.

Now ,open up your limited minds for the following subtopics:

1-When one of you receive , welcome and greet me at his own house, he will warmly accompany and usher me to sit in the setting room NOT in the bathroom?Why?

2-When a president of a counrty is received and welcomed in another country,he is accompanied by the host president .They both will walk on a protocol long red carpet NOT on the bare ground ?Why?

3-There was a large swimming pool brimmed with blood, placentas , and imbilical cords .If one of you was asked to dive into that swimming pool just for “9 minutes” and he will be given one million US dollar ,will he do so?NO.Why?And what are the deterrent reasons?

4-If I asked one of you :”Do you venerate and respect God?”.The answer will be”Yes”.

5-Well ! Re-think of the following :
---Don’t you degrade our God when you consider Jesus as a God kept in his mother’s womb for “9 months”?
--Don’t you undervalue our God when imagining him wrapped up by the fetal membrane?
--Don’t you belittle our God when imagining him submerged into fluids and his face was wholly covered with the caul?
--Don’t you dishonor our God when eating bread soaked in wine as Jesus’ flesh and the food goes through metabolism and excreted out of your body , eventually?


--Please excogitate these things to see how much you look down upon our Creator , our Maker ,Allah or (Father according to your creed).

Accept my regards and have good happy times

Ayed

[Jericho923]

Hello, peace be with you!

in respect to the degrading of God by being in the womb...you must consider that we believe that Mary was conceived without sin: the immaculate conception!
Also, that is the point! who really cares about placenta fluids when Jesus was crusified and killed in the most horrible way!
If he died for us, do you not think that He would have gone through birth for us?
The paradox of Christianity is exactly what you are stating! it is so amazing that even looking at it from an outside perspective is so crazy and amazing! makes it even more profound!
God, Almighty, Most merciful, most powerful, all seeing, all bearing, Omnipotent...
humbled himself to be like us so he could open the gates of Heaven bearing our sin!
No true argument about the "disgusting" reality of the womb when compared to the Cross...besides, God Himself created us in His image and it was good! including birth and all that our bodies encompass.

[color=red]"For God so loved the world that he gave His only Son, so that everyone who believes in Him might not perish but might have eternal life." John 3:16[/color]
amen.
have a most beautiful day and may our Lord forever keep you close to His Divine Mercy and Sacred Heart.

Edited March 21, 2004 by Jericho923

[Bruce S]

"Allah" was a minor Arabic deity PRIOR to Muhammad [PBUH] being "visited" by the angels and his revelations. [Proof of that is Muhammad's father's name, Abdullah, or OF ALLAH ] how could Muhammad have a father OF a God that wasn't revealed until Muhammad had his revelations?

Muhammad was a great man, no doubt about that, anyone that could rally troops, and IMPOSE by force, a religion upon 1/5 of the known world is someone to contend with, no doubt.

BUT....

This is critical. He has NO supporting extra Koranic support, there is NO evidence that God himself had any alignment with Muhammed, in fact, one of his first acts, was to slaughter God's "Chosen People" the Jews in Mecca.

No. Islam is nothing more or less than a pagan religion, formed from the older pre-existing Moon worshipping God's of Mecca.

Sorry. Without the sword, this religion would have stayed in the medivial backwater of sixth century Arabia, and died out most likely. It was only with coercion, and massive slaughter that it spread the way it did, as the early adherants swarmed out of Arabia seeking power, money, slaves, gold and glory.

[u][i][b]It is of men, not God.[/b][/i][/u]

Edited March 21, 2004 by Bruce S

[Jericho923]

sorry i forgot to mention the Eucharist!
[quote]--Don’t you dishonor our God when eating bread soaked in wine as Jesus’ flesh and the food goes through metabolism and excreted out of your body , eventually?
[/quote]

Jesus wanted it that way! He instituted communion Himself to be with us always!
i had mentioned this yesterday in a different conversation, but St. Thomas Aquinas defined love as: the union between the Lover and the Beloved!

What other way could we be more united to Christ, God Himself than by ingesting Him! We will never understand the Naure of God...at least not as long as our intellects and wills are limited by the physical world...inteh same way all we are called to do is obey and in faith proclaim the Truth of Jesus Christ. He came, was born,, lived in holiness, proclaimed the Kingdom, even proved it with His life and miracles, and His Word...and then, as if it was not enough He died for us!!! But first He made sure we could continue to be in communion with Him! He instituted the Church and left us His Word and His Blood and Body!
Surely, that bread and wine which to us in essence become Blood and Body, will go through a metabolic process...we may understand that clearly with science, but we cannot understand the Spiritual gift that it is!...not with the same science.
We can never try to understnd God with human limitations..not even Jesus, because He resurrected and lived a life of perfection.

i hope you find that helpful. Blessing and peace eternal to you!

[Jericho923]

we do not need force, just sharing in the example of Jeus, in Love.
"Preach the Gospel at all times, use words if necessary" -St. Francis of Assisi

[Bruce S]

If you are a mere "Christian" rather than a Roman Catholic, this isn't such a good question [it really is] since those outside the Catholic Church [for many Protestant denominations, not all] believe that the partaking of bread and wine is SYMBOLIC, rather than literal.

But, this board doesn't agree with that interpretation, so they will have to contend with the extracatory issues, I'm sort of glad we don't have that concern.

[Bruce S]

Shhh,,,,

Catholics used a bit of force here and there, ask the Jews of Spain....

[Jericho923]

God bless you brothers

[Justified Saint]

Indeed, most all religions are not unused to the concept of applying force in some fashion or another at some time or another.

On another note, the similarities between Islam and Protestantism are simply amazing.

[Jericho923]

surely that force has been used throught history, but are we not called to be like Jesus instead of like the past or the world?

[Justified Saint]

Good point Jericho. The invaluable tool of studying the past can be destroyed if we dwell too much in it or misplace our emphasis on it.

[Jericho923]

i mean Jesus walked among sinners, He revolutionized it all! He was angry when it was needed, but all out of Love!
we can focus so much on our own conviction that we can forget the mission to which we are called to respond with our entire lives

[phatcatholic]

ayed................your thoughts?

[popestpiusx]

It is also an interesting fact that Mohammed was a pedophile. His favorite wife was 9 years old.

Bruce, there is a fundamental difference between the Spanish Question (which has been exageratted horribly) and the Muslims. The Qu'ran requires force to be used. Sura 9:73 "Prophet, make war on the unbelievers and the hypocrites and deal rigorously with them. Hell shall be their home: an evil fate." Also, Sura 9: 5 states, "slay the idolaters wherever you find them." Nothing in the Catholic religion parallels this.

[DojoGrant]

Popestpiusx,

No offense, but taking a few little verses without context doesn't show anything. I'm not defending the Koran or Islam, but to say it can't be done in Christian Scripture is not true.

Joshua 6:21
They observed the ban by putting to the sword all living creatures in the city: men and women, young and old, as well as oxen, sheep and asses.

or Genesis 19:30-33
Since Lot was afraid to stay in Zoar, he and his two daughters went up from Zoar and settled in the hill country, where he lived with his two daughters in a cave.
The older one said to the younger: "Our father is getting old, and there is not a man on earth to unite with us as was the custom everywhere.
Come, let us ply our father with wine and then lie with him, that we may have offspring by our father."
So that night they plied their father with wine, and the older one went in and lay with her father; but he was not aware of her lying down or her getting up.

Let's not forget that David had a child out of wedlock and had Uriah killed. Or that Moses disobeyed God and was kept out of the promised land. Or the whole Isreal conquest.

Edited March 23, 2004 by DojoGrant

[M.SIGGA]

Please read the Qur'ann.

It seems that many Christians believe Islam, Judaism, and Christianity share a faith in the one God, but to me it seems the Muslims think otherwise, and they have always thought otherwise. Look to the Qur'aan for historical evidence, which says Christians and Jews have long held this belief, and Muslims have long rejected this sense of unity:

[color=red]They (Jews and Christians) took their rabbis and their priests to be their lords besides Allâh (Qur'aan 9:31)[/color]

But from a Judeo-Christian perspective, how can this be the voice of God the Trinity, whom we ALL Christians know and worship? Note: Islam literally means "the Way" or "the Right Path."

[color=red]Truly, the religion with Allâh is Islâm. [b]Those who were given the Scripture (Jews and Christians) did not differ except, out of mutual jealousy, after knowledge had come to them. And whoever disbelieves in the Ayât (proofs, evidences, verses, signs, revelations, etc.) of Allâh, then surely, Allâh is Swift in calling to account. [/b](Qur'aan 3:19)

[1] Those who disbelieve from among the people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians) and among Pagans, were not going to leave (their disbelief) until there came to them clear evidence.

[b][2] A Messenger (Muhammad) from Allâh, reciting (the Qur'ân) purified pages

[3] Containing correct and straight laws from Allâh.[/b]

[4] And the people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians) differed not until after there came to them clear evidence. (i.e. Prophet Muhammad (Peace be upon him) and whatever was revealed to him).

[b][5] And they were commanded not, but that they should worship Allâh, and worship none but Him Alone (abstaining from ascribing partners to Him)[/b], and perform Prayers and give Charity: and that is the right religion.

[b][6]Verily, those who disbelieve (in the religion of Islâm, the Qur'ân and Prophet Muhammad (pbuh)) from among the people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians) and pagans will abide in the Fire of Hell. They are the worst of creatures.[/b][/color]

[7] Verily, those who believe [in the Oneness of Allâh, and in His Messenger Muhammad (pbuh)) including all obligations ordered by Islâm] and do righteous good deeds, they are the best of creatures.

[8] Their reward with their Lord is Eden Paradise (Gardens of Eternity), underneath which rivers flow, they will abide therein forever, Allâh Well-Pleased with them, and they with Him. That is for him who fears his Lord.

(Qur'ân 98)

[b][85] And whoever seeks a religion other than Islâm, it will NEVER be accepted of him, and in the Hereafter he will be one of the losers. [86] How shall Allâh guide a people who disbelieved after their belief and after they bore witness that the Messenger (Muhammad SAW) is true and after clear proofs had come unto them? [/b]And Allâh guides not the people who are Zâlimûn (polytheists and wrongdoers). [87] They are those whose recompense is that on them (rests) the Curse of Allâh, of the angels, and of all mankind. [88] They will abide therein (Hell). Neither will their torment be lightened, nor will it be delayed or postponed (for a while). (Qur’an 3:85-88)

I have family that is Muslim and I studied Islam in college and I came to the same conclusion as Bruce S, especially after learning about the history of the Ka’aba at Mecca. Reading the Qur'ann for myself has also lead to these conclusions.

For the record, the expulsion of Spanish Muslims and Jews was an error of the times of sinful people and has nothing to do with Christian Doctrines revealed by the Catholic Church. The Qur'ann specifically calls out "people of Scripture" meaning Christians and Jews to burn in hell. Protestants weren't exactly Jewish/Muslim friendly during the Renaissance and if there was a Protestant kingdom on the North African/Mediterannean border the same intolerance would have been demonstrated.

I'm not saying Muslims ignorant of the Gospel burn in hell, but as a Christian, there is the one true God of Israel Yhwh Elohim, revealed in the Bible, who made the Jews his chosen people, and from this root came Jesus Christ, God's Son, and our Lord and Savior.

[Winchester]

Ayed, please accept my heartfelt bitten thumb directed unto your personage.
You vomit forth your "in fact three gods" statement with an utter lack of regard for the various arguments and explanations previously proffered to you. You beaver dam well know we don't believe in more than one God, yet you stubbornly returneth to your well-masticated sermon.
I find myself again tired of your smarmy and backhanded appeals for "open-mindedness" and wishes of peace. Have at it with insults, but do not feign civility and respect, please. I have said my piece before, and I repeat it in hopes that the bluntness of my words will shock you into paying some damned attention.

[Winchester]

As a bump and yet another jab, I beg you to quit using those insipid little hearts to cloak your condescending "questions".

[popestpiusx]

[quote name='DojoGrant' date='Mar 23 2004, 02:43 PM'] Popestpiusx,

No offense, but taking a few little verses without context doesn't show anything. I'm not defending the Koran or Islam, but to say it can't be done in Christian Scripture is not true.

Joshua 6:21
They observed the ban by putting to the sword all living creatures in the city: men and women, young and old, as well as oxen, sheep and asses.

or Genesis 19:30-33
Since Lot was afraid to stay in Zoar, he and his two daughters went up from Zoar and settled in the hill country, where he lived with his two daughters in a cave.
The older one said to the younger: "Our father is getting old, and there is not a man on earth to unite with us as was the custom everywhere.
Come, let us ply our father with wine and then lie with him, that we may have offspring by our father."
So that night they plied their father with wine, and the older one went in and lay with her father; but he was not aware of her lying down or her getting up.

Let's not forget that David had a child out of wedlock and had Uriah killed. Or that Moses disobeyed God and was kept out of the promised land. Or the whole Isreal conquest. [/quote]
Dojo,
what you quoted, while still the inspired word of God, is of the Old Covenant. The Old Covenant was replaced by the New Covenant. You would have to find something in the New Testament to justify what you said. This is not possible. You can't even find anything in Church Teaching that would justify it. There are many such quotations in the Qu'ran and the entire history of Islam is a testament to that fact. It is a bloodsoaked religion.

[mulls]

[quote name='Winchester' date='Mar 25 2004, 12:07 AM'] Ayed, please accept my heartfelt bitten thumb directed unto your personage.
You vomit forth your "in fact three gods" statement with an utter lack of regard for the various arguments and explanations previously proffered to you. You beaver dam well know we don't believe in more than one God, yet you stubbornly returneth to your well-masticated sermon.
I find myself again tired of your smarmy and backhanded appeals for "open-mindedness" and wishes of peace. Have at it with insults, but do not feign civility and respect, please. I have said my piece before, and I repeat it in hopes that the bluntness of my words will shock you into paying some damned attention. [/quote]
that's absolutely horrible dude