Why Men Stay Away From The Feminized Church

[Lil Red]

+J.M.J.+
[url="http://winteryknight.wordpress.com/2009/03/11/why-men-stay-away-from-the-feminized-church/"]Article here[/url]
[quote]As Christianity became more feminized, it began to focus more on producing emotional satisfaction. But men want something different.[/quote]
[quote]All of the outward facing disciplines within Christianity, such as apologetics, theology, ethics, etc. are de-emphasized, censored or resisted in feminized churches. There is no place for rationality, moral judgments and boundaries, debates and disagreement, confrontations and persuasion, or other manly Christian practices.[/quote]
[quote]Another turn-off for men is touchy-feely sermons. Pearcey said the modern church stresses emotions and inner spiritual experiences while neglecting the intellectual side of the faith.

“The more traditionally masculine side of Christianity enjoys crossing swords with hostile secular worldviews. So, as long as Christianity appeals to the emotional, therapeutic, interpersonal, relational areas, it’s not going to appeal to men as much as to women,” Pearcey said.

Churches should engage men’s intellects to help them see the relevance of Christianity to the “real” world of politics, industry and business, Pearcey said.

“We have to recover the notion that Christianity is true on all levels, not just for your emotional life or repairing relationships, as important as those things are,” she said.[/quote]
go read the whole thing - it's quite good

[eagle_eye222001]

Article makes many good points. I like it.


Anyone up for an apologetics debate?

----------------
Listening to: [url="http://www.foxytunes.com/artist/john+powell/track/jason+phones+it+in"]John Powell - Jason Phones It In[/url]
via [url="http://www.foxytunes.com/signatunes/"]FoxyTunes[/url]

[Norseman82]

Very true points. I think a good portion of the Church has lost its stomach for confrontation, and this is why we see a lot of the ills in society we have today.

[quote name='eagle_eye222001' post='1804762' date='Mar 12 2009, 12:30 PM']Anyone up for an apologetics debate? [/quote]

"I'd like to buy an argument"

[Norseman82]

Here is another good article:

[url="http://tigger.uic.edu/~schorsch/php/HowwrestlingwentawayfromQuigley1999.htm"]How Wrestling Went Away From Quigley[/url]

It mentions how high school seminarians in Chicago (this was before my time) were required to learn how to wrestle in order to learn assertiveness.

Edited March 12, 2009 by Norseman82

[TeresaBenedicta]

Women don't want the "feminized Church" either.

[HisChildForever]

[quote]Maybe women should be more sensitive to male needs and character, and more concerned about what the Bible teaches about the the role of apologetics in the Kingdom of God.[/quote]

I find this hilarious. Are their churches dominated by female preachers? If the answer is no, then just as many men are preaching "feminized" Christianity. Maybe these male preachers should recognize that they are losing male members and ask themselves why. Or maybe male preachers can give female preachers some kind words of advice.

Furthermore, I severely dislike that the blame is being placed on women, that men are leaving the church. Maybe it's not JUST the style of preaching, but the members' [i]personality[/i] and [i]"me-first" faith[/i] that pushes them to leave and search for a church more to their liking. That's why Catholicism is so great, there's no room for subjective interpretation.

[Hassan]

[quote name='HisChildForever' post='1804837' date='Mar 12 2009, 12:34 PM']I find this hilarious. Are their churches dominated by female preachers? If the answer is no, then just as many men are preaching "feminized" Christianity. Maybe these male preachers should recognize that they are losing male members and ask themselves why. Or maybe male preachers can give female preachers some kind words of advice.

Furthermore, I severely dislike that the blame is being placed on women, that men are leaving the church. Maybe it's not JUST the style of preaching, but the members' [i]personality[/i] and [i]"me-first" faith[/i] that pushes them to leave and search for a church more to their liking. That's why Catholicism is so great, there's no room for subjective interpretation.[/quote]




Plus I believe the decline of male membership began in the 19th century with the industrial revolution. This was also when women morphed in Christiaity from being the Evelike source of sexual temptaion to the cornerstone of the famlies spiritual life.

[HisChildForever]

[quote name='Hassan' post='1804844' date='Mar 12 2009, 01:40 PM']

Plus I believe the decline of male membership began in the 19th century with the industrial revolution. This was also when women morphed in Christiaity from being the Evelike source of sexual temptaion to the cornerstone of the famlies spiritual life.[/quote]

Eve did not use sex appeal to tempt Adam though...

[Hassan]

[quote name='HisChildForever' post='1804851' date='Mar 12 2009, 12:46 PM']Eve did not use sex appeal to tempt Adam though...[/quote]


Not in Genesis.

But I think if you look at the New Testament she becomes sort of an archetype of female temptation. Perhapse that's just totally wrong.

All I'm trying to say is that from what I've read they are unfairly blaming women. Women came to have a much more positive role in Christianity, and the messagy geared towards them because men were already leaving the Church.

[HisChildForever]

[quote name='Hassan' post='1804856' date='Mar 12 2009, 01:49 PM']Not in Genesis.

But I think if you look at the New Testament she becomes sort of an archetype of female temptation. Perhapse that's just totally wrong.

All I'm trying to say is that from what I've read they are unfairly blaming women. Women came to have a much more positive role in Christianity, and the messagy geared towards them because men were already leaving the Church.[/quote]

Okay, I see what you're saying. Also, I don't think it's wise to say "women are nurturers" and "men are adventurous." While both statements are [i]true[/i] they should not be [i]compared[/i] because then it sounds like men can't be nurturers and women can't be adventurous. Therefore, while these Christian churches seem to appeal to one's emotions and feelings, it's ridiculous to think "Emotions...feelings...okay, we're turning into feminists!" What a stupid conclusion.

[i]Why[/i] do they have to label that preaching "style" with a gender? They make it sound as if men are not as emotional as women. Just because men don't DISPLAY their emotions the way women do does NOT men that they experience LESS emotion. One of my priests is very passionate and animated during his homilies. Uh-oh, is that too much womanly emotion, will there be any men left in the pews this Sunday?

Anyway, just do a search on YouTube and watch clips of the Christians who flail around "possessed" by the Holy Spirit, or the Christians who shout "AMEN" to their preachers every five seconds with their arms raised, and tell me you see more women than men. Plenty of men go for that sort of thing too.

Edited March 12, 2009 by HisChildForever

[Church Punk]

[quote]Churches should engage men’s intellects to help them see the relevance of Christianity to the “real” world of politics, industry and business, Pearcey said.[/quote]

I dont hear this said much, apart from 2 sources (the Tridentine Mass and Opus Dei, especially from most dioceasen priest, they almost always side with a femine approach to preaching. And you might as well forget any groups at a parish. Being a mid-twentys male, I find almost nothing appealing that most parishes have going on outside of Mass.

...This is why I think many men are drawn to Opus Dei, this is perciesly what I hear them preach, how to be holy in your daily work- industries and business, during sports, at home with family, alone.

[rkwright]

[quote name='Church Punk' post='1804876' date='Mar 12 2009, 01:11 PM']I dont hear this said much, apart from 2 sources (the Tridentine Mass and Opus Dei, especially from most dioceasen priest, they almost always side with a femine approach to preaching. And you might as well forget any groups at a parish. Being a mid-twentys male, I find almost nothing appealing that most parishes have going on outside of Mass.

...This is why I think many men are drawn to Opus Dei, this is perciesly what I hear them preach, how to be holy in your daily work- industries and business, during sports, at home with family, alone.[/quote]

My Fiance's mother is in opus dei. I love reading her stuff when I get the chance. Jose Maria was incredible.

[LouisvilleFan]

John Eldredge, anyone?

[Vincent Vega]

[quote name='HisChildForever' post='1804868' date='Mar 12 2009, 01:05 PM']Anyway, just do a search on YouTube and watch clips of the Christians who flail around "possessed" by the Holy Spirit, or the Christians who shout "AMEN" to their preachers every five seconds with their arms raised, and tell me you see more women than men. Plenty of men go for that sort of thing too.[/quote]
No, men go more for the clucking like a chicken churches.

[Church Punk]

[quote name='rkwright' post='1804880' date='Mar 12 2009, 03:15 PM']My Fiance's mother is in opus dei. I love reading her stuff when I get the chance. Jose Maria was incredible.[/quote]

Ya it really is, thats why they made him a saint.

[Nihil Obstat]

[quote]The more traditionally masculine side of Christianity enjoys crossing swords with hostile secular worldviews.[/quote]

My favourite hobby!!!

[ardillacid]

[quote name='HisChildForever' post='1804851' date='Mar 12 2009, 01:46 PM']Eve did not use sex appeal to tempt Adam though...[/quote]
Says who? A naked woman tells you to eat an apple, most guys don't have the willpower to say no to a naked chick. Sorry. Its your fault.

Edited March 12, 2009 by notardillacid

[takebacktonight]

[quote name='notardillacid' post='1804925' date='Mar 12 2009, 03:17 PM']Says who? A naked woman tells you to eat an apple, most guys don't have the willpower to say no to a naked chick. Sorry. Its your fault.[/quote]


Actually, I believe it was John Milton who said it was an apple... Before that, it was just 'fruit'.

[HisChildForever]

[quote name='notardillacid' post='1804925' date='Mar 12 2009, 03:17 PM']Says who? A naked woman tells you to eat an apple, most guys don't have the willpower to say no to a naked chick. Sorry. Its your fault.[/quote]

Except Adam and Eve did not KNOW they were naked until AFTER they ate the fruit.

[takebacktonight]

[quote name='HisChildForever' post='1804932' date='Mar 12 2009, 03:25 PM']Except Adam and Eve did not KNOW they were naked until AFTER they ate the fruit. [/quote]


Absolutely...

Ever read Salve Deus Rex Judeorum?

[url="http://drakesdoor.org/podcasts/al/amelialanyer.html"]Eve's Apology in Defense of Women[/url]:

Till now your indiscretion sets us free,
And makes our former fault much lesse appeare;
Our Mother Eve, who tasted of the Tree,
Giving to Adam what shee held most deare,
Was simply good, and had no powre to see,
The after-comming harme did not appeare:
The subtile Serpent that our Sex betraide,
Before our fall so sure a plot had laide.

That undiscerning Ignorance perceav'd
No guile, or craft that was by him intended;
For had she knowne, of what we were bereav'd,
To his request she had not condiscended.
But she (poore soule) by cunning was deceav'd,
No hurt therein her harmelesse Heart intended:
For she alleadg'd Gods word, which he denies,
That they should die, but even as Gods, be wise.

But surely Adam can not be excusde,
Her fault though great, yet hee was most too blame;
What Weaknesse offerd, Strength might have refusde,
Being Lord of all, the greater was his shame:
Although the Serpents craft had her abusde,
Gods holy word ought all his actions frame,
For he was Lord and King of all the earth,
Before poore Eve had either life or breath.

Who being fram'd by Gods eternall hand,
The perfect'st man that ever breath'd on earth;
And from Gods mouth receiv'd that strait command,
The breach whereof he knew was present death:
Yea having powre to rule both Sea and Land,
Yet with one Apple wonne to loose that breath
Which God had breathed in his beauteous face,
Bringing us all in danger and disgrace.

And then to lay the fault on Patience backe,
That we (poore women) must endure it all;
We know right well he did discretion lacke,
Beeing not perswaded thereunto at all;
If Eve did erre, it was for knowledge sake,
The fruit beeing faire perswaded him to fall:
No subtill Serpents falshood did betray him,
If he would eate it, who had powre to stay him?

Not Eve, whose fault was onely too much love,
Which made her give this present to her Deare,
That what shee tasted, he likewise might prove,
Whereby his knowledge might become more cleare;
He never sought her weakenesse to reprove,
With those sharpe words, which he of God did heare:
Yet Men will boast of Knowledge, which he tooke
From Eves faire hand, as from a learned Booke.

If any Evill did in her remaine,
Beeing made of him, he was the ground of all;
If one of many Worlds could lay a staine
Upon our Sexe, and worke so great a fall
To wretched Man, by Satans subtill traine;
What will so fowle a fault amongst you all?
Her weakenesse did the Serpents words obay;
But you in malice Gods deare Sonne betray.


Edit: Of course, this is certainly not a modern day 'feminist' interpretation.

Edited March 12, 2009 by takebacktonight