Official Venting Thread

[CatherineM]

I went to mass last night. I had choir off today, so we decided to make a day of it together ending with mass.

First vent: Two little old ladies sitting behind us spoke the entire time. Our church is shaped like a cross with the altar on the North side, and the main entrance where the cry rooms are on the South. We sat in the shorter West side to that we didn't end up near the cry room. Fussing kids can sometimes make my husband nervous, which can set off his symptoms, so we sat on the side. These ladies weren't just talking, they were talking very loudly. I wanted to scream at them.

Second vent: We recently put a candle set on a side niche. The East and West sides of the church have those old built in confessionals with an inset between. The East is dedicated to the Divine Mercy, and the West to our Lady of Good Counsel. The new candle set and Prie Dieu are in front of the large Divine Mercy painting on the East side. A woman sitting on the East side, got up loudly in the middle of our pastor's homily, and went over and flopped down loudly on the Prie Dieu and started lighting candles and banging around. Our pastor's first language isn't English, and he can be hard to understand under the best of circumstances, so having someone up running around, basically made it impossible.

[Apotheoun]

Tread?

[eagle_eye222001]

All these things happened this morning at the mass I attended. They are in no particular order and are not an exhaustive list.

----------

1. At my parish and at the one where I lived before where I lived now, the parish would have a program for children during mass. Basically the children would be invited and leave the church before the Liturgy of the Word, and go to another room to do a "kids liturgy of the word" and would return after the priest's homily. I understand the intent of this to appeal to kids more, however, I truly believe mass should be attended and participated fully as a family. Dividing the family up during mass is something that should be avoided. Now I understand if a kid is crying then it is appropiate for a parent to take the kid in back to calm them down. However we should not be making programs to divide the family at mass.

2. When the priests says his homily walking around instead of staying at the pulpit.

3. When people leave mass before the procession.

4. When immediately after the music ends at the end of mass, everyone starts talking loudly.

5. When people applaud in church. I know people have good intentions but I think it ruins the mass by doing something such as clapping.

[Fidei Defensor]

At least you have access to a liturgy at all, and can be there.

[HisChildForever]

Not sure if this is an appropriate thread.

[Apotheoun]

You mean an appropriate "tread."

[CatherineM]

[quote name='HisChildForever' post='1819587' date='Mar 29 2009, 12:51 PM']Not sure if this is an appropriate thread.[/quote]

Why? We talk about people with loud children, people on cell phones, lots of inappropriate things that happen during mass that we really have no control over. It's not like I can go over to someone in the middle of the homily and tell her to return to her seat.

It's better to vent here than to disrupt an already disrupted liturgy.

[HisChildForever]

[quote name='CatherineM' post='1819605' date='Mar 29 2009, 02:08 PM']Why? We talk about people with loud children, people on cell phones, lots of inappropriate things that happen during mass that we really have no control over. It's not like I can go over to someone in the middle of the homily and tell her to return to her seat.

It's better to vent here than to disrupt an already disrupted liturgy.[/quote]

Well because this is a public forum and anyone lurking here might get the wrong impression. Some "vents" could very well help people become more aware ("oh man, I never realized, I really should make sure my cell phone is off") but other vents (children going downstairs for twenty minutes, for example) are just scrupulous and unnecessary. For example, in the summer months, the children can go downstairs at the 10am Mass (they have a special procession) where they are taught the readings, including the Gospel, and hear a simpler translation to better understand. They return during the collection. It is very beneficial, in my opinion, because the parents can focus on the Liturgy of the Word and the children can be given personal instruction for better understanding. It may make the children really look forward to Mass, too. I also feel that children are most jumpy during the readings because they have to sit still for a stretch, whereas during the Liturgy of the Eucharist they can sit, stand, and kneel. Furthermore, when they return for the Liturgy of the Eucharist, they are especially attentive.

Edited March 29, 2009 by HisChildForever

[Apotheoun]

The children can be taught about the readings in CCD. The liturgy is about worship, and children should worship with their parents. That is the tradition of the Church.

[Archaeology cat]

[quote name='eagle_eye222001' post='1819582' date='Mar 29 2009, 06:48 PM']1. At my parish and at the one where I lived before where I lived now, the parish would have a program for children during mass. Basically the children would be invited and leave the church before the Liturgy of the Word, and go to another room to do a "kids liturgy of the word" and would return after the priest's homily. I understand the intent of this to appeal to kids more, however, I truly believe mass should be attended and participated fully as a family. Dividing the family up during mass is something that should be avoided. Now I understand if a kid is crying then it is appropiate for a parent to take the kid in back to calm them down. However we should not be making programs to divide the family at mass.[/quote]
I understand that. I went to a different Mass today (not for that reason), so didn't have that today. While I can see how there can be benefits to it, I personally prefer for us to be together at Mass. Though DH is a flautist at our parish, so it's usually just Kieran and me. He does really well, though.

And of course, not like it's required to send your child to the children's liturgy.

[quote name='fidei defensor' post='1819584' date='Mar 29 2009, 06:49 PM']At least you have access to a liturgy at all, and can be there.[/quote]
Always a good thing to remember, and something I try to remember when I start getting irritated.

Edited March 29, 2009 by Archaeology cat

[HisChildForever]

[quote name='Archaeology cat' post='1819640' date='Mar 29 2009, 02:35 PM']And of course, not like it's required to send your child to the children's liturgy. [/quote]

Exactly. You don't want your children to leave, keep them next to you in your pew.

[Apotheoun]

The idea of having an organized system for sending children out of the liturgy in order to "study" the readings exhibits a failure to grasp the true nature of the liturgy.

[Archaeology cat]

[quote name='Apotheoun' post='1819651' date='Mar 29 2009, 07:46 PM']The idea of having an organized system for sending children out of the liturgy in order to "study" the readings exhibits a failure to grasp the true nature of the liturgy.[/quote]
I tend to agree. Which is why my children will stay with me. At this moment I'm not sure I could tell you why I agree, though. Add this to things I need to read up on more.

[StColette]

[quote name='Apotheoun' post='1819651' date='Mar 29 2009, 02:46 PM']The idea of having an organized system for sending children out of the liturgy in order to "study" the readings exhibits a failure to grasp the true nature of the liturgy.[/quote]

I agree. What concerns me most is if the Gospel is being proclaimed to the children, who is reading the Gospel? It's not a Priest, most likely, and I highly doubt it's a Deacon. That the really big thing that bugs me about Childrens Liturgy. I mean, if they are essentially there to hear the readings then they are still attending Mass, but who is reading the Gospel? I also believe it causes a huge commotion for kids to go running out of the pews up to the front or to the back of the Church.


One of my biggest pet peeves though is parents who let their children run their little toy cars up and down the walls. We just finished a 5.4 million dollar renovation at the Church where I work and I witness on a regular basis little kids running cars up and down the nice new paint.

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='StColette' post='1819779' date='Mar 29 2009, 07:56 PM']I agree. What concerns me most is if the Gospel is being proclaimed to the children, who is reading the Gospel? It's not a Priest, most likely, and I highly doubt it's a Deacon. That the really big thing that bugs me about Childrens Liturgy. I mean, if they are essentially there to hear the readings then they are still attending Mass, but who is reading the Gospel? I also believe it causes a huge commotion for kids to go running out of the pews up to the front or to the back of the Church.

One of my biggest pet peeves though is parents who let their children run their little toy cars up and down the walls. We just finished a 5.4 million dollar renovation at the Church where I work and I witness on a regular basis little kids running cars up and down the nice new paint.[/quote]

Shouldn't this addressed by Father or signs or something? No cars in church!

[MissyP89]

I, for one, agree with HCF on this. Mass made no sense to me at all as a little girl; to have someone explain it to me in a way I could understand would have been very beneficial.

As to who is reading the Gospel...I know it matters in the confines of the Mass, but at a Scripture study for children? I don't think it makes a difference--it would be no different if I were a mother reading from the Gospels to my young children.

It doesn't cause that much of a disruption, IMO. At my parish, it takes a grand total of two minutes to get two dozen little ones down to the front and into the chapel. That Mass is more crowded than any other at my parish because the children are active and involved in a way that is engaging for them. If it bothers people--I for one prefer something a little more low-key--then other Masses are available.

[StColette]

[quote name='cmotherofpirl' post='1819788' date='Mar 29 2009, 07:03 PM']Shouldn't this addressed by Father or signs or something? No cars in church![/quote]

lol They are usually little toy matchbox cars, not remote control cars of course, but common sense should tell the parents "hey, so and so, don't put your car on the wall." I've actually had to tell a few little ones not to do that because their parents would not do anything. I felt bad for stepping in, but I work their and have some authority over maintaining the property. I wouldn't be so bothered by it if it was a separate room for the cry room, but there is not a cry room. Part of the Narthex of the Church is designated for families with small children. So I mean it's the first thing you see when you walk inside the Church so you don't really want to see huge scratches in the paint.

[StColette]

[quote name='MissyP89' post='1819796' date='Mar 29 2009, 07:11 PM']I, for one, agree with HCF on this. Mass made no sense to me at all as a little girl; to have someone explain it to me in a way I could understand would have been very beneficial.

As to who is reading the Gospel...I know it matters in the confines of the Mass, but at a Scripture study for children? I don't think it makes a difference--it would be no different if I were a mother reading from the Gospels to my young children.[/quote]

That's why it is the parent's job to Catechize their children outside of the Mass so that they will know what is going on within the Mass. I never went to children's liturgy and I understood what was going on because my parents instructed me in what was going on. And I was always able to ask questions quietly to my parents during Mass if there was something I didn't understand.
Also it would be beneficial for the parents to go home and explain the readings to their children after Mass, if there is something the children did not understand.

Even when children are removed from the main body of the Church for Children's Liturgy they are still attending the Mass, which means a priest or deacon should be proclaiming the Gospel to them. I mean, seriously, if a non-ordained person is proclaiming the Gospel to them in the context that they are their attending Sunday Mass then it could cause great confusion later for them when someone tries to explain to them that only the ordained may proclaim the Gospel at Mass. It has taken also 6 months for my PSR kids to understand that only the ordained can proclaim the Gospel at Mass because they are so used to Mrs. so and so proclaiming it to them in children's liturgy.

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='StColette' post='1819798' date='Mar 29 2009, 08:14 PM']lol They are usually little toy matchbox cars, not remote control cars of course, but common sense should tell the parents "hey, so and so, don't put your car on the wall." I've actually had to tell a few little ones not to do that because their parents would not do anything. I felt bad for stepping in, but I work their and have some authority over maintaining the property. I wouldn't be so bothered by it if it was a separate room for the cry room, but there is not a cry room. Part of the Narthex of the Church is designated for families with small children. So I mean it's the first thing you see when you walk inside the Church so you don't really want to see huge scratches in the paint.[/quote]
Even matchbox cars can scratch the paint. Maybe they should make a rule - books only or something.

[StColette]

[quote name='cmotherofpirl' post='1819802' date='Mar 29 2009, 07:22 PM']Even matchbox cars can scratch the paint. Maybe they should make a rule - books only or something.[/quote]

Yeah, I'm bringing it up at the next staff meeting cause it's clearly becoming a problem. That and kiddos spilling bright red juice on the nice pretty chairs. lol