Prove Jesus To A Jew

[Apotheoun]

[quote name='Nihil Obstat' post='1828578' date='Apr 7 2009, 10:47 PM']So let's say that someone was willing to maybe accept Jesus as the Jewish Messiah, but didn't understand why we also call Him one with God. What do we point to in order to take it that extra step?[/quote]
You would point to divine revelation interpreted according to the mind of the Church, which is made manifest through Tradition.

[rkwright]

[quote name='Apotheoun' post='1828622' date='Apr 8 2009, 01:25 AM']What it means is this: you cannot speak about the divine essence in relation to the incarnation, but must refer that mystery solely to the person of the Logos.


Yes, according to the 5th ecumenical council, it is heretical to "focus" upon the divine nature of Christ, which is only distinguished [i]tei theoriai monei[/i], but never in reality. The orthodox teaching is that Christians must focus upon the divine person of the Logos, who exists in two natures after the incarnation, without separation or blending.

To speak of the "divine nature" as incarnate is heretical, because the divine nature is common to the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.[/quote]

What do you mean by "focus"?

How are we to speak of the divinity of Jesus?

[Apotheoun]

[quote name='rkwright' post='1828815' date='Apr 8 2009, 09:35 AM']What do you mean by "focus"?[/quote]
Since man can know nothing about the divine essence it follows that it cannot be the focus of conceptualization.

While the persons, although existing ineffably, can be known to a limited degree, and the same is true with the divine energies that reveal God's presence in the world, for they can – albeit in a limited way – conceived, but the divine essence is utterly transcendent and unknowable, for it is adiastemic, while the created world is diastemic [cf. St. Gregory of Nyssa, [i]7th Homily on Ecclesiastes[/i], J.412].

[quote name='rkwright' post='1828815' date='Apr 8 2009, 09:35 AM']How are we to speak of the divinity of Jesus?[/quote]
[i]Divinity[/i] is not the divine essence; instead, divinity is an energy of the three persons, and like all common energies of the Trinity it manifests the unity of the persons within the divine nature, and yet the divine nature itself remains beyond our grasp. The essence of the Triune God is heterousios in relation to His creation, and as a consequence it cannot be known or conceived, for as St. Basil taught: "The energies are various, and the essence simple, but we say that we know our God from His energies, but do not undertake to approach near to His essence. His energies come down to us, but His essence remains beyond our reach" [St. Basil, [i]Letter 234[/i]].

Edited April 8, 2009 by Apotheoun

[rkwright]

[quote name='Apotheoun' post='1828825' date='Apr 8 2009, 10:47 AM']Since man can know nothing about the divine essence, it follows that it cannot be the focus of conceptualization. The persons, while existing ineffably, can be to a limited degree known, and the same is true with the divine energies that reveal God's presence in the world, but the divine essence is utterly transcendent and unknowable, for it is adiastemic, while the created world is diastemic.


[i]Divinity[/i] is not the divine essence; instead, divinity is an energy of the three persons, and like all common energies of the Trinity it manifests the unity of the persons within the divine nature, and yet the divine nature itself remains beyond our grasp. The essence of the Triune God is heterousios in relation to His creation, and as a consequence it cannot be known or conceived, for as St. Basil taught: "The energies are various, and the essence simple, but we say that we know our God from His energies, but do not undertake to approach near to His essence. His energies come down to us, but His essence remains beyond our reach" [St. Basil, [i]Letter 234[/i]].[/quote]

Sorry for the questions, and don't mean to hijack, but this is quiet interesting... if you will...

How does the western church approach this?

Does focus include meditation on? Can one meditate on the "divinity" (energy) of Jesus? Why is it wrong to meditate on the essence of God?

When we speak of Jesus's divinity we are speaking of the energy of the person?

How does this change our discussions, relationship, and general spirituality toward Jesus?

[pat22]

this debate is sliding of subject.

[pat22]

you guys have argued all my little questioning Jesus starts pretty well, does anybody else have a question about Jesus? can anybody recommend a good book to read based on this topic?