The Death Of Historical Jesus - Remembered (again)

[Resurrexi]

I would say one of the most conclusive proofs that the Christ of Christianity is the historical Jesus is that nearly all of the twelve apostles died for their faith in the Risen God-Man. I don't know too many people willing to die for something they made up.

[Guest]

[quote name='Resurrexi' post='1839506' date='Apr 18 2009, 02:28 AM']I would say one of the most conclusive proofs that the Christ of Christianity is the historical Jesus is that nearly all of the twelve apostles died for their faith in the Risen God-Man. I don't know too many people willing to die for something they made up.[/quote]

beautiful point.

[Guest]

[quote name='Resurrexi' post='1839506' date='Apr 18 2009, 03:28 AM']I would say one of the most conclusive proofs that the Christ of Christianity is the historical Jesus is that nearly all of the twelve apostles died for their faith in the Risen God-Man. I don't know too many people willing to die for something they made up.[/quote]

the only thing i would disagree on is that the preaching of another jesus today is not of a made up jesus per say. but of a jesus who doesnt address sin, doesnt tell you take your cross up, doesnt tell you to eat his flesh and drink his blood, and the only thing he does seem to tell you is to get rich and get ready to be raptured away.

Edited April 18, 2009 by Guest

[Resurrexi]

Basically if you believe that the Church invented the Catholic understanding of Jesus, you probably also hold that the Apostles were liars. If, however, I were going to invent the story of Jesus' life, I sure would have done a better job than the Apostles at getting my story straight. If you haven't noticed, there are many apparent contradictions between the gospels (note my use of the word [i]apparent[/i].)

Edited April 18, 2009 by Resurrexi

[Guest]

if you have time would you list them ? if not its cool but i would be interested to see them.

[Resurrexi]

I'd rather not. It's best not to worry about them. When you do, you get distracted from the big picture. And I'm going to reiterate what another poster said: do not type "gospel inconsistencies" into google.

Edited April 18, 2009 by Resurrexi

[Guest]

from the one way i take rey b is saying that the catholic church is preaching another jesus. he is saying that the jesus the church preaches is not the jesus "christains" preach. so hes accusing like everyone else that the catholic church is teaching a false gospel and false christ.

although the scripture i quoted from paul says those guilty of preaching a false jesus are super apostles. he says they masquarde as angels of light althought hey are really devils. to me that lines up with all the rapture christianity and the new age christianity. he also says those superpreachers will be found guilty in a final conflict at the end times. hmm

[Guest]

[quote name='Resurrexi' post='1839522' date='Apr 18 2009, 03:43 AM']I'd rather not. It's best not to worry about them. When you do, you get distracted from the big picture. And I'm going to reiterate what another poster said: do not type "gospel inconsistencies" into google.[/quote]


lol but i want to so badddddddddddddd


jk

[Resurrexi]

I didn't read the original post. I just know that usually when people talk about the "historical Jesus" they are usually referring to a man whom they believe was not born of a virgin and did not rise from the dead.

[Guest]

gotcha

i just searched that i couldnt resist.

so what does the church teach abot the word, is it error free ?

[Resurrexi]

Yes.

[Guest]

gotcha

[HisChildForever]

[quote name='Delivery Boy' post='1839479' date='Apr 18 2009, 02:35 AM']Actually there is in the sence Apostle Paul warns of a final conflict where superpreachers (he describes them as preachers who will not preach without a charge) will preach another Jesus and followers will aceept a different gospel and a different spirit.[/quote]

Which only means that these so-called preachers are going to distort the Gospel message to their liking. This is not dissimilar to Catholics who call themselves Catholics but do not adhere to the faith, supporting abortion and contraception (among others).

[HisChildForever]

[quote name='Delivery Boy' post='1839523' date='Apr 18 2009, 03:44 AM']from the one way i take rey b is saying that the catholic church is preaching another jesus. he is saying that the jesus the church preaches is not the jesus "christains" preach. so hes accusing like everyone else that the catholic church is teaching a false gospel and false christ.

although the scripture i quoted from paul says those guilty of preaching a false jesus are super apostles. he says they masquarde as angels of light althought hey are really devils. to me that lines up with all the rapture christianity and the new age christianity. he also says those superpreachers will be found guilty in a final conflict at the end times. hmm[/quote]

Rey continuously attempts to disprove Catholicism but, as you should come to notice, never explains what Christ [i]he[/i] is "preaching" nor does he offer any support of his [i]personal[/i] belief (whatever that belief is).

Please stop driving yourself crazy over the rapture and "new age" Christianity.

Edited April 18, 2009 by HisChildForever

[Dr_Asik]

[quote name='Resurrexi' post='1839506' date='Apr 18 2009, 04:28 AM']I would say one of the most conclusive proofs that the Christ of Christianity is the historical Jesus is that nearly all of the twelve apostles died for their faith in the Risen God-Man. I don't know too many people willing to die for something they made up.[/quote]100% agreed. To think they were promoting some myth they made up is madness.

[reyb]

[quote name='Resurrexi' post='1839506' date='Apr 18 2009, 03:28 AM']I would say one of the most conclusive proofs that the Christ of Christianity is the historical Jesus is that nearly all of the twelve apostles died for their faith in the Risen God-Man. I don't know too many people willing to die for something they made up.[/quote]


[quote name='Dr_Asik' post='1839804' date='Apr 18 2009, 05:34 PM']100% agreed. To think they were promoting some myth they made up is madness.[/quote]

[indent]Are you referring to the 12 Apostles in the synoptic gospel? This is a good opportunity for all of us to see and to prove that these 12 Apostles (including all characters in the synoptic gospel like the 3 wise men or kings, Mary and John the carpenter, Pontius Pilate…etc…etc) truly exist in this world more or less 2000 years ago. And since you believed that this ‘gospel’ is a historical reality, can you pleased show some ‘proofs’? Take note, I even heard on TV Archbishop Dolan in New York saying ‘when he visited the Holy Land, they cannot find the ‘Road to Emmaus’.

Please post here any proof. (Let us say, biography of any particular character in the synoptic gospel) [/indent]

[reyb]

[quote name='HisChildForever' post='1839578' date='Apr 18 2009, 09:46 AM']Rey continuously attempts to disprove Catholicism but, as you should come to notice, never explains what Christ [i]he[/i] is "preaching" nor does he offer any support of his [i]personal[/i] belief (whatever that belief is).

Please stop driving yourself crazy over the rapture and "new age" Christianity.[/quote]

[indent]
Christ is the mystery of God, Isn' it? Now, how can I explain him to you? [/indent]

[quote name='Dr_Asik' post='1839804' date='Apr 18 2009, 05:34 PM']100% agreed. To think they were promoting some myth they made up is madness.[/quote]

[indent]There is no historical Jesus but it does not mean (true) Christ is a myth. [/indent]

[Dr_Asik]

[quote name='reyb' post='1839834' date='Apr 18 2009, 08:36 PM']There is no historical Jesus but it does not mean (true) Christ is a myth.[/quote]Jesus did exist. The Catholics do not believe in a merely symbolical or spiritual figure, but in a concrete historical one. His historicity has been well established. See [url="http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/08375a.htm"]http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/08375a.htm[/url]

Nobody needs to prove the historical reality of any of the figures in the gospel on this forum. This has received ample treatment in reams of litterature. If you're interested in what a Catholic scholar would say on the topic, read [url="http://www.amazon.com/Everlasting-Man-G-K-Chesterton/dp/0898704448"]The Everlasting Man[/url].

By the way, why do you indent all your text? It makes it harder to read than needs be.

Edited April 19, 2009 by Dr_Asik

[Resurrexi]

[quote name='reyb' post='1839832' date='Apr 18 2009, 07:28 PM'][indent]Are you referring to the 12 Apostles in the synoptic gospel? This is a good opportunity for all of us to see and to prove that these 12 Apostles (including all characters in the synoptic gospel like the 3 wise men or kings, Mary and John the carpenter, Pontius Pilate…etc…etc) truly exist in this world more or less 2000 years ago. And since you believed that this ‘gospel’ is a historical reality, can you pleased show some ‘proofs’? Take note, I even heard on TV Archbishop Dolan in New York saying ‘when he visited the Holy Land, they cannot find the ‘Road to Emmaus’.

Please post here any proof. (Let us say, biography of any particular character in the synoptic gospel) [/indent][/quote]



No reputable historian denies the existence of Pontius Pilate.

[reyb]

[quote name='Dr_Asik' post='1840041' date='Apr 18 2009, 10:36 PM']Jesus did exist. The Catholics do not believe in a merely symbolical or spiritual figure, but in a concrete historical one. His historicity has been well established. See [url="http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/08375a.htm"]http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/08375a.htm[/url]

Nobody needs to prove the historical reality of any of the figures in the gospel on this forum. This has received ample treatment in reams of litterature. If you're interested in what a Catholic scholar would say on the topic, read [url="http://www.amazon.com/Everlasting-Man-G-K-Chesterton/dp/0898704448"]The Everlasting Man[/url].

By the way, why do you indent all your text? It makes it harder to read than needs be.[/quote]


[quote name='Resurrexi' post='1840053' date='Apr 18 2009, 10:42 PM']

No reputable historian denies the existence of Pontius Pilate.[/quote]

After you said ‘Jesus (historical) did exist’, then you followed it up by saying ‘No reputable historians denied the existence of Jesus (historical)’. This is the dilemma of believers because even historians and non-Christians 'believes' in the existence of historical Jesus although some says, Jesus is just a prophet or a carpenter, or whatever but still they are pointing to one Jesus – the historical Jesus. Thus, I asked, ‘Do you have any tangible evidence, a sort of biography of any character in the gospel including the Pharisees (Caiphas, Annas...etc.)?’.

I want you to take notice (again) what Apostle Paul said in 2 Cor 4:1-6.

[color="#FF0000"]4:1 Therefore, since through God's mercy we have this ministry, we do not lose heart. 2 Rather, we have renounced secret and shameful ways; we do not use deception, nor do we distort the word of God. On the contrary, by setting forth the truth plainly we commend ourselves to every man's conscience in the sight of God. 3 And even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled to those who are perishing. 4 The god of this age has blinded the minds of unbelievers, so that they cannot see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God. 5 For we do not preach ourselves, but Jesus Christ as Lord, and ourselves as your servants for Jesus' sake. 6 For God, who said, "Let light shine out of darkness," made his light shine in our hearts to give us the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Christ. [/color]NIV
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Now, how can anyone see Christ or how can anyone see the light of the Gospel or the image of God without becoming Christ disciples themselves?

Edited April 19, 2009 by reyb