I Am A Right-wing Extremist!

[KnightofChrist]

[quote name='LouisvilleFan' post='1852414' date='Apr 29 2009, 04:02 PM']For that matter, the pro-life cause is not singularly dedicated to fighting abortion.[/quote]

All pro-life groups and individuals combined, yes. But there are many groups and individuals who are singularly dedicated to fighting abortion. They should not be or worry as being seen as potential extremist by The United States government, based on a baseless politically motivated report.

[Socrates]

[quote name='Hassan' post='1851764' date='Apr 28 2009, 09:54 PM']Many also hate Unions and workers being able to strike, like the Nazis.[/quote]
Because the Nazis wanted government control of both labor and capital - similar to the left-wing soviets. That's totalitarian socialism - the government claiming to act on behalf of "the workers" of course.

[quote]Believe it or not there was a lot more to the "Nationalist Socialist" agenda than "Socialism" (Not that it was an actual socialist country but let's move on). Xenophobia, Nationalism, hell anti semitism has historically been linked to nationalism venting frustration against ethnic/religious minorities towards an ethnic/religious minority. These are thing that the far right does share with Nazism and were, I would venture to guess, much more responsible for the horrors than Nazism than an ostensive allegience to socialism. But who knows. Perhapse anti-semitism came about in Germany because those darn Jews were to dedicated to libertarian economics and, as we all know, if there is one thing the German masses cherished it was Keynesian mathematical economics. This idea that Nazism was somehow a liberal movement is, I'm sorry, just balderdash. Let's try a field experiement for a moment. Go to a local neo-nazi group. Play them an hour of Michael Savage and an hour of Rachael Maddow and see who they like more.[/quote]
Blah, blah.
The Nazis came to power because 1930s Germany was in dire straits, economically and geo-politically, and the Nazis offered a "solution."
Of course, Nazi anti-capitalism was linked with antisemitism, as Jews were identified as the capitalist oppressors of the German worker.

I never claimed Nazism was "a liberal movement." But neither does Nazism have anything to do with current American conservatism, popular lefty belief to the contrary.

The historical fact remains that the Nazis greatly increased central government control over the economy, rather than weakened it. I'll let you figure out which side of the American political spectrum their collectivist big-government totalitarianism more closely resembles.

I'm for greatly restricting immigration myself, but that doesn't make me a Nazi. The equation of any "rightwing" political cause with Nazism/fascism is just vacuous name-calling.

[quote]They are not the same thing, but Hitler certianly incorporated both into his rhetori[/quote]
Hitler also incorporated anti-capitalist socialism and worker's rights into his rhetoric, yet you conveniently disregard that.

[quote]I don't much but into psychoanalysis so I'd go with I just found something in your post ammusing.[/quote]Well I fail to see what's so hilarious about it. Constantly laughing when nothing's funny only makes you look like a fool, and certainly does nothing to advance your argument.

[quote]How about Boortz comparing Muslims fasting on Ramadan to cockroaches. Have you listened to Michael Savage lately? Two name two immediate examples[/quote]
I've never heard of that Boortz dude before, so really how influential can he be? I don't listen to Savage, but being that he's Jewish, I'd find accusations of Nazism or antisemitism a little hard to believe without some serious evidence. I mean, Greaseman and Imus got yanked off the air for a lot less. And an awful lot of your attacks on conservatism seem to hinge on Michael Savage, as if he were the final authority of conservatism or something.

I could dig up a plethora of crazy, outrageous, and just plain moronic things liberals have said if I wanted to and had time, but that would prove no more than your claims.

[quote]I don't know what "pals" of mine you could be talking about because I certianly would not be friends with such people.



I have? I thought after a discussion with Lounge Daddy I changed my mind.

Even if I were I would be careful about tredding down that road. Unless you favor the FCC abolishing any cencorship of sex on broadcast television. The Soviets were a bit prudish about sex in moies[/quote]
I thought you later said you reconsidered your position yet again.

And the first amendment protects political speech, not obscenity - though lately liberals have gotten that backwards.
And if the left-wing Commies were prudish about sex, does that make sexual prudishness a leftist thing? What's your point?


[quote]I'm two busy to do do work on a flawed thesis. Comparing the aggregate actions of thousands of national and internation movements and NGO's spread out across a global community is not analgous to one single issue driven movement within one country of the world. You want roll the dice then let's roll them. The article was about the possability of right wing terrorism in the US.[/quote]
For someone "two [sic] busy" you spend an awful amount of time on the net picking fights with conservatives.

Islamists have been responsible for more terrorism against Americans than "rightwingers."

[quote]Let's compare the net global innocent deaths killed by militant Islamic movements and states compared to the net global innocent deaths killed by Christian nationalists/right wing Christian parties over the last, let's say, one hundred years.[/quote]
That only works if you define Nazis as "right wing Christian parties," which has been shown to be a false premise. The Nazis were pretty major persecutors of the Church. If they were so "Christian," they sure were pretty brutally opposed to their own kind.

And (at least to my knowledge) the DHF report was supposed to be about [i]current[/i] threats to national security, not about threats that were defeated almost 70 years ago.

And if you want to play that game, many more (around 100 million) have been killed world-wide over the past 100 years by atheist left-wing Communist regimes.
By your own logic, the government should [i]really[/i] be focusing its attention on left-leaning atheists like yourself.

Edited April 30, 2009 by Socrates

[Winchester]

What he said.

[Hassan]

[quote name='Socrates' post='1852700' date='Apr 29 2009, 09:32 PM']Because the Nazis wanted government control of both labor and capital - similar to the left-wing soviets. That's totalitarian socialism - the government claiming to act on behalf of "the workers" of course.[/quote]

yep


[quote]Blah, blah.
The Nazis came to power because 1930s Germany was in dire straits, economically and geo-politically, and the Nazis offered a "solution."
Of course, Nazi anti-capitalism was linked with antisemitism, as Jews were identified as the capitalist oppressors of the German worker.[/quote]

Yes, it was a function of his populism and xenophobia.

The foreign Jews exercise a kabalistic control over the good white Christian German man. Anti-semitism existed in Germany, and all of Europe, before Capitalism was created. Simply because Hitler used such metaphores does not mean his movement was not right wing.

Is the modern conservative movement left wing? Always complaning about those Mexicans who come in and do the jobs America won't do at the wage the are offered. They want to stop the free market don't ya know! They know that Americans can't compete with Mexicans in a free market system so they ask government to step in to keep wages high and secure job positions, sounds socialist to me.

[quote]I never claimed Nazism was "a liberal movement." But neither does Nazism have anything to do with current American conservatism, popular lefty belief to the contrary.[/quote]

Sure, what does Nazism have to do with stigmatization and scapegoating of minorities, right wing nationalist populism and exceptionalism, and protecting the purity of the national culture from foreign degregation. The same impulses which gave rise to Nazism fuel the conservative movement today, the popular one anyway.

[quote]The historical fact remains that the Nazis greatly increased central government control over the economy, rather than weakened it. I'll let you figure out which side of the American political spectrum their collectivist big-government totalitarianism more closely resembles.[/quote]

Right, because Bush Jr, Bush Sr, Regan, Nixon, they all weakened the national government right?


[quote]I'm for greatly restricting immigration myself, but that doesn't make me a Nazi.[/quote]

No it does not

[quote]The equation of any "rightwing" political cause with Nazism/fascism is just vacuous name-calling.[/quote]

Not what I have done or would do.


[quote]Hitler also incorporated anti-capitalist socialism and worker's rights into his rhetoric, yet you conveniently disregard that.[/quote]

So does modern conservative populism.

[quote]Well I fail to see what's so hilarious about it. Constantly laughing when nothing's funny only makes you look like a fool, and certainly does nothing to advance your argument.[/quote]

Well you don't find them funny because your being serious.


[QUOTE]I've never heard of that Boortz dude before, so really how influential can he be?[QUOTE]


[url="http://talkers.com/online/?p=71"]http://talkers.com/online/?p=71[/url]

[Hassan]

[quote]I don't listen to Savage, but being that he's Jewish, I'd find accusations of Nazism or antisemitism a little hard to believe without some serious evidence. I mean, Greaseman and Imus got yanked off the air for a lot less. And an awful lot of your attacks on conservatism seem to hinge on Michael Savage, as if he were the final authority of conservatism or something.[/quote]

I didn;t say Michael Savage made anti semetic comments, as I recall you asked for rhetoric comparable to the nazi anti semetic rantings, which Mr Savage provides plenty of. I do focus on Michael Savage because he is tied for third place with conservative audiences yet is a man very comparable to the Nazi propagandists of the past.

I could point to Ann Coulter

[quote]I could dig up a plethora of crazy, outrageous, and just plain moronic things liberals have said if I wanted to and had time, but that would prove no more than your claims.[/quote]

It wasn't my argument, you asked for examples of comparable rhetoric which I have provided.


[quote]And the first amendment protects political speech, not obscenity - though lately liberals have gotten that backwards.[/quote]

Like those darn liberals at the ACLU?

They never stand up for free speech

[quote]And if the left-wing Commies were prudish about sex, does that make sexual prudishness a leftist thing? What's your point?[/quote]

Social conservatives existed within the Soviet Government, very much so in fact. You keep wanting to conflate economic socialism with progressivism, by making them one and the same. It's a nice rhetorical trick on your part, although perhapse you don't intend to and are just imitating Ann Coulter or whoever, but profoundly flawed



[quote]For someone "two [sic] busy" you spend an awful amount of time on the net picking fights with conservatives.[/quote]

I need some entertainment while I study.

[quote]Islamists have been responsible for more terrorism against Americans than "rightwingers."[/quote]

And we see the begining of another profoundly flawed argument.


[quote]That only works if you define Nazis as "right wing Christian parties," which has been shown to be a false premise. The Nazis were pretty major persecutors of the Church. If they were so "Christian," they sure were pretty brutally opposed to their own kind.[/quote]

The Church=/=Christians

The man who ran the camp where Kolbe died was a devout Protestant as I recall.

More important for the gaping hole in your silly comparison is that fact that Nazism is by far not the only movement in the 20th century to incorporate or wholly be right wing Christian.



[quote]And (at least to my knowledge) the DHF report was supposed to be about [i]current[/i] threats to national security, not about threats that were defeated almost 70 years ago.[/quote]

Let's count the ways that doesn't matter.

[quote]And if you want to play that game, many more (around 100 million) have been killed world-wide over the past 100 years by atheist left-wing Communist regimes.
By your own logic, the government should [i]really[/i] be focusing its attention on left-leaning atheists like yourself.[/quote]


If I joint a Marxist government which flirts with the violent overthrow of he American government then yes.

[Socrates]

[quote name='Hassan' post='1862223' date='May 8 2009, 11:28 PM']I didn;t say Michael Savage made anti semetic comments, as I recall you asked for rhetoric comparable to the nazi anti semetic rantings, which Mr Savage provides plenty of. I do focus on Michael Savage because he is tied for third place with conservative audiences yet is a man very comparable to the Nazi propagandists of the past.

I could point to Ann Coulter



It wasn't my argument, you asked for examples of comparable rhetoric which I have provided.[/quote]
Yet you've provided no actual examples, and certainly shown nothing comparable to Nazism.

"Comparing" conservatism to Nazism is typically the last resort of a liberal who's bereft of actual substantial arguments.

And Michael Savage is a red herring in this debate anyway.

[quote]Like those darn liberals at the ACLU?

They never stand up for free speech[/quote]
The ACLU is usually quite selective in whose "free speech" they stand up for. (When was the last time you saw them defending Christian's right to free speech, as opposed to atheists, etc.?)
"Hate speech" legislation (an attack on free speech if there ever was one), the so-called "fairness doctrine," and political-correctness are typically advocated by the left, rather than the right.

[quote]Social conservatives existed within the Soviet Government, very much so in fact. You keep wanting to conflate economic socialism with progressivism, by making them one and the same. It's a nice rhetorical trick on your part, although perhapse you don't intend to and are just imitating Ann Coulter or whoever, but profoundly flawed[/quote]
So now, not only Nazism, but Communism as well is "conservative"?

Figures . . .

You are the one who wants to conflate American conservatism with Nazism.
"Conservative=right-wing=Nazi" is no less stupid than "Liberal=left-wing=Communist."

If you don't like that game, don't start it.


[quote]I need some entertainment while I study.[/quote]
You must lead a very dull life.


[quote]And we see the begining of another profoundly flawed argument.




The Church=/=Christians

The man who ran the camp where Kolbe died was a devout Protestant as I recall.

More important for the gaping hole in your silly comparison is that fact that Nazism is by far not the only movement in the 20th century to incorporate or wholly be right wing Christian.[/quote]
I recently listened to a talk by a devout Catholic woman from the Czech Republic who survived both Nazi and Communist occupation. The Nazis brutally persecuted the Church there, and many were blatantly atheist.

Nazism was hardly a movement rooted in Christianity. You need to study history (and basic spelling while you're at it) rather than cheap lefty propaganda.

And besides atheistic left-wing regimes have murdered more people worldwide than Nazis and "Christians" put together.

However you try to play it, you lose.

[Hassan]

[quote name='Socrates' post='1864630' date='May 11 2009, 10:17 PM']Yet you've provided no actual examples, and certainly shown nothing comparable to Nazism.[/quote]

Examples of what? Comparing a religious minority to cockroachs isn’t akin to Nazi racist propaganda?

[quote]"Comparing" conservatism to Nazism is typically the last resort of a liberal who's bereft of actual substantial arguments.[/quote]

I am not comparing intelligent conservativism to Nazism. I think I've said that very clearly several times now and have praised such an ideology.

[quote]And Michael Savage is a red herring in this debate anyway.[/quote]


You asked for examples, if it's a red herring then it's a red herring given at your request.


[quote]The ACLU is usually quite selective in whose "free speech" they stand up for. (When was the last time you saw them defending Christian's right to free speech, as opposed to atheists, etc.?)
"Hate speech" legislation (an attack on free speech if there ever was one), the so-called "fairness doctrine," and political-correctness are typically advocated by the left, rather than the right.[/quote]

Really?

How about Rush Limbaugh? As I recall the last time that engorged hypocrite was exposed for the charlatan he is the ACLU actually fought to defend his medical privacy.

[Hassan]

[quote]So now, not only Nazism, but Communism as well is "conservative"?

Figures . . .[/quote]


Let's see. Did I say "communism" or did I say "the Soviet Government"?
And did I say the Soviet Government was conservative?
Go back, read slowly, and be on the lookout for nuance. If you need any help let me know.

[quote]You are the one who wants to conflate American conservatism with Nazism.
"Conservative=right-wing=Nazi" is no less stupid than "Liberal=left-wing=Communist."[/quote]

Never did any such thing.





[quote]You must lead a very dull life.[/quote]

lol.

and you can't tell when someone is being facetious

[quote]I recently listened to a talk by a devout Catholic woman from the Czech Republic who survived both Nazi and Communist occupation. The Nazis brutally persecuted the Church there, and many were blatantly atheist.[/quote]


Oh wow, you listened to a talk.

Let's see, am I unaware that Catholics were persecuted by the Nazis? Well in the very post you were responding to I mentioned a famous Catholic Saint brutally martyred by the Nazis, so probably no.



[quote]Nazism was hardly a movement rooted in Christianity. You need to study history (and basic spelling while you're at it) rather than cheap lefty propaganda.[/quote]

It was hardly dethatched from it. And the problem is not my historical knowledge, or spelling, or immersion in propaganda. It is your inability to dispense with right wing talking points and actually engage with what I am claiming. I made reference to right wing Christian nationalism, now that was very much involved with the popular German support for the Nazi government, but I was referring to other movements. I also mean, for example, Orthodox Serbian nationalists.

[quote]And besides atheistic left-wing regimes have murdered more people worldwide than Nazis and "Christians" put together.[/quote]


And what the hell does this have to do with anything I'm saying? Perhaps if I shared your asinine, hyper dichotomized view of the world this would be an effective rhetorical counter. Sadly for you I do not. Left wing regimes have committed atrocities, horrific atrocities. If anyone makes a post objecting to the government monitoring far left organizations who it feels may go down a militant path then these movements and government would be relevant, for this conversation they are not.

[quote]However you try to play it, you lose.[/quote]

lol

[Brother Vinny]

[quote name='Winchester' post='1841649' date='Apr 20 2009, 06:36 PM']Left wing and liberal aren't synonyms. Stay on target, porkins.[/quote]

w00t, [i]Star Wars[/i] allusion!