Islam 101 - A One Minute Complete Course On Islam

[Didacus]

[quote name='PeteWaldo' post='1881420' date='Jun 2 2009, 05:01 PM'][snip]

No shed blood. In spite of the massive, even secular historical record, of the crucifixion of Jesus Christ.[/quote]

Secular historical record of Jesus' crucifixion? I would be interested in learning more.

to my knowledge, the claim was from seculars that no record of Jesus' death existed outside of the bible.

The rest of course, contains no surprises. According to Islam we are nothing more than singing monkeys and dogs.

[PeteWaldo]

[quote name='Didacus' post='1881866' date='Jun 3 2009, 10:01 AM']Secular historical record of Jesus' crucifixion? I would be interested in learning more.

to my knowledge, the claim was from seculars that no record of Jesus' death existed outside of the bible.

The rest of course, contains no surprises. According to Islam we are nothing more than singing monkeys and dogs.[/quote]

Though as you point out, irrelevant to this subject, and also to Christians, you can Yahoo the subject. I grabbed a sample of one such site:
[url="http://www.agapebiblestudy.com/documents/Historical%20evidence%20on%20the%20exhistance%20of%20Jesus.htm"]http://www.agapebiblestudy.com/documents/H...0of%20Jesus.htm[/url]

[Didacus]

That's a good summary.

Thanks.

And welcome to phatmass!

[Apotheoun]

[quote name='musturde' post='1881763' date='Jun 3 2009, 12:55 AM']Does this apply to Jews as well?[/quote]
Yes, it does apply to those who follow the teachings of Rabbinic Judaism, at least until the time -- by the grace of God -- that they accept Christ as savior.

Edited June 4, 2009 by Apotheoun

[PeteWaldo]

[quote name='PeteWaldo' post='1881785' date='Jun 3 2009, 07:13 AM']Rom 11:8 (According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear;) unto this day.

Rom 11:17 And if [b]some[/b] of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in [b]among them[/b], and [b]with them[/b] partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree; 18 Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee.

Rom 11:25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

Rom 11:28 As concerning the gospel, [they are] enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, [they are] beloved for the fathers' sakes.[/quote]

That [b][size=4]only[/size] [/b]applies to Jews. There are only two groups under which humanity is born. Jew or Gentile.
The Jews are described as the "good" olive tree and Gentiles as the "wild" olive tree in that chapter.
[url="http://www.israelinbibleprophecy.com/spirit_of_slumber.htm"]http://www.israelinbibleprophecy.com/spirit_of_slumber.htm[/url]

[PeteWaldo]

Sorry. I not only didn't notice the above post that answers this, but also goofed up the quote function again.
Admin can remove this and my immediately prior post, if you choose

[Winchester]

That verse might be interpreted as supporting the ressurrection.

That said, Mohammedanism is a false religion not inspired by God. It rejects the authority of the Church. That's enough.

Edited June 4, 2009 by Winchester

[Socrates]

Islam does indeed (as recorded in the quoted Koran passage) deny Christ's crucifixion and resurrection. According to Islam, Jesus Christ was a great prophet (though not as great as Mohammed, of course), and according to Islam, a prophet of Allah can never be defeated or killed by his enemies. Thus, the prophet Jesus, according to the false Mohammedan religion, could never have been killed by crucifixion.
Islam teaches that Christian leaders later deliberately changed the Gospels and preached falsehoods about Jesus and His teachings, including His death and resurrection.

Islam is an apostate man-made religion in blatant contradiction to the teachings of Christianity, and I really don't get why so many on here seem determined to act like Islam and Christianity somehow compatible.

[Hassan]

[quote name='Socrates' post='1888101' date='Jun 10 2009, 08:31 PM']Islam does indeed (as recorded in the quoted Koran passage) deny Christ's crucifixion and resurrection. According to Islam, Jesus Christ was a great prophet (though not as great as Mohammed, of course), and according to Islam, a prophet of Allah can never be defeated or killed by his enemies. Thus, the prophet Jesus, according to the false Mohammedan religion, could never have been killed by crucifixion.
Islam teaches that Christian leaders later deliberately changed the Gospels and preached falsehoods about Jesus and His teachings, including His death and resurrection.[/quote]


I'm not sure what your source is regarding the claim that "Islam" teaches that a prophet can neve be killed or that Christian leaders deliberately corrupted the texts. The Qur'an itself mentiones prophets being killed as I recall and there are many different oppinions regarding the former religious texts and thier integrity how they were corrupted, what is left et cetera. Islam has no central teaching authority. Outside of a few major parts there will almost always be some precedent for a different tradition.


[quote]Islam is an apostate man-made religion in blatant contradiction to the teachings of Christianity, and I really don't get why so many on here seem determined to act like Islam and Christianity somehow compatible.[/quote]


I guess that depends on what you mean by compatible.

[Mateo el Feo]

[quote name='musturde' post='1881647' date='Jun 3 2009, 12:03 AM']For example, Muslims believe in the immaculate conception...[/quote]Hi Mustarde,

Just a minor correction: Muslims believe in the virgin birth of Jesus, but not in Mary's Immaculate Conception.

[musturde]

[quote name='Mateo el Feo' post='1888355' date='Jun 11 2009, 03:27 AM']Hi Mustarde,

Just a minor correction: Muslims believe in the virgin birth of Jesus, but not in Mary's Immaculate Conception.[/quote]

Oops. You're right. I thought I had already corrected that.
Thanks.

[Socrates]

[quote name='Hassan' post='1888119' date='Jun 10 2009, 09:49 PM']I'm not sure what your source is regarding the claim that "Islam" teaches that a prophet can neve be killed or that Christian leaders deliberately corrupted the texts. The Qur'an itself mentiones prophets being killed as I recall and there are many different oppinions regarding the former religious texts and thier integrity how they were corrupted, what is left et cetera. Islam has no central teaching authority. Outside of a few major parts there will almost always be some precedent for a different tradition.[/quote]
I heard it in a speech, which you will likely predictably dismiss, yet you have provided no Muslim sources stating belief in Jesus Christ's crucifixion and resurrection.

(And, as Muslims deny Jesus' divinity, regarding Him as a mere prophet, belief in the Resurrection, as recounted in the Gospels, would seem to me highly unlikely.)





[quote]I guess that depends on what you mean by compatible.[/quote]
For starters, Christians believe Jesus Christ is God and Savior, while Muslims do not.
Muslims believe Christians to be damnable infidels for not heeding the words of the Prophet Mohammed.

Obviously, these religions are in opposition to each other, and this fact is attested by history.

[Hassan]

[quote name='Socrates' post='1888594' date='Jun 11 2009, 05:39 PM']I heard it in a speech, which you will likely predictably dismiss, yet you have provided no Muslim sources stating belief in Jesus Christ's crucifixion and resurrection.[/quote]

I'll dismise it because the individual did not know what they were talking about.

Surah Al-Baqarah (2:61)


[i]And remember ye said: "O Moses! we cannot endure one kind of food (always); so beseech thy Lord for us to produce for us of what the earth groweth, -its pot-herbs, and cucumbers, Its garlic, lentils, and onions." He said: "Will ye exchange the better for the worse? Go ye down to any town, and ye shall find what ye want!" They were covered with humiliation and misery; they drew on themselves the wrath of Allah. [b]This because they went on rejecting the Signs of Allah and slaying His Messengers without just cause.[/b] This because they rebelled and went on transgressing.[/i]

[quote](And, as Muslims deny Jesus' divinity, regarding Him as a mere prophet, belief in the Resurrection, as recounted in the Gospels, would seem to me highly unlikely.)[/quote]

I can go ahead and tell you that no Muslim sect I have ever heard of affirms the resurrection of Christ.






[quote]For starters, Christians believe Jesus Christ is God and Savior, while Muslims do not.
Muslims believe Christians to be damnable infidels for not heeding the words of the Prophet Mohammed.

Obviously, these religions are in opposition to each other, and this fact is attested by history.[/quote]


Those are examples, I'm asking what you mean by the actual claim.

[Apotheoun]

[quote name='Hassan' post='1888857' date='Jun 11 2009, 10:42 PM']Those are examples, I'm asking what you mean by the actual claim.[/quote]
I believe that Socrates is asserting, as any true Christian must, that Islam is a false religion and that there is no salvation in it. In fact, those who follow faithfully the false teachings of Mohammad are less likely to achieve salvation than a pagan who -- through no fault of his own -- has never heard of Christ.

Edited June 12, 2009 by Apotheoun

[Guest Jon]

[quote name='musturde' post='1881649' date='Jun 2 2009, 10:06 PM'][url="http://www.ewtn.com/library/SCRIPTUR/ZKORAN.HTM"]http://www.ewtn.com/library/SCRIPTUR/ZKORAN.HTM[/url]
Btw, this is a more levelheaded explanation about Islam from a priest. I trust people on this forum will find this source somewhat reliable.[/quote]

[color="#000080"]Thank you for the link.

Jon[/color]

[Hassan]

[quote name='Apotheoun' post='1888897' date='Jun 12 2009, 01:23 AM']I believe that Socrates is asserting, as any true Christian must, that Islam is a false religion and that there is no salvation in it. In fact, those who follow faithfully the false teachings of Mohammad are less likely to achieve salvation than a pagan who -- through no fault of his own -- has never heard of Christ.[/quote]

That would make sense

[Guest Jon]

This is a link that farther down as you scroll has interesting ideas about Islam and how it relates to "666 and the Beast". Take it for what it's worth.

[url="http://www.schneblin.com/studies/pdfs/mark_of_the_beast.pdf"]http://www.schneblin.com/studies/pdfs/mark_of_the_beast.pdf[/url]

[Winchester]

Muslims don't seem to think Christianity to be 'compatible' with Islam.

[musturde]

[quote name='Apotheoun' post='1888897' date='Jun 12 2009, 02:23 AM']I believe that Socrates is asserting, as any true Christian must, that Islam is a false religion and that there is no salvation in it. In fact, those who follow faithfully the false teachings of Mohammad are less likely to achieve salvation than a pagan who -- through no fault of his own -- has never heard of Christ.[/quote]

If a Muslim is taught Christ's teachings in the context of Islam, how is it his fault that he is not a Christian?

[Apotheoun]

[quote name='musturde' post='1889122' date='Jun 12 2009, 12:18 PM']If a Muslim is taught Christ's teachings in the context of Islam, how is it his fault that he is not a Christian?[/quote]
Muslims do not teach Christ's doctrine. Islam is at best the folly of Mohammad's imagination, and at worst it is a demonic deception intended to lead people away from faith in the Triune God.

Theological indifferentism is a heresy long ago condemned by the Church Fathers.

Edited June 12, 2009 by Apotheoun