My Sister Has Decided To Leave The Catholic Church

["Kyrie eleison"]

My sister is a divorcee and never had her marriage annulled. She remarried and feels distanced from the Catholic Church because she is considered an adultress for not having her marriage annulled. I have spoke with her and have asked her to speak to a priest about annullments but she says she doesn't want to bring up the past and drudge up all the bad memories, so she is going to one of those mega born again christian churches (the one the former Miss America attends).

She feels welcomed and forgiven at this church and there is no problem with having her son baptised.

The driving force that drove her to finally leave is that she could not get her baby baptised in the Catholic Church.

We are so torn and saddened that she had decided to leave. My mom who is a devout Catholic heart is breaking.

I know many leave for this reason. How should I, we reach out to divorcee's?

[OraProMe]

Why the heck would they deny the child the sacraments? The child's not divorced or living in sin and the mother obviously wants to raise it Catholic.

hmmmmmph

[Don John of Austria]

how can one whois not living a Catholic life , and has no intention of living a Catholic life, make promises for a child to live a Catholic life.

This might be overcome by a good choice of God Parents.

The issue as awhole however requires more time than I have currently, I will try to get back to it as a soon as I can.

[CatherineM]

Marriage issues are one of the biggest reasons people leave the church. We hear people talking about leaving because they disagree with the Church about XYZ, or because of the abuse scandal, but the quiet reason is marriage. When I talked to people at the tribunal who had finally filed for annulment after decades away from the church, many said they didn't want to admit they had failed, or they were afraid of the process as some kind of big unknown. You could talk to someone at your local tribunal to explain the process, the paperwork involved, the cost, the timeline, and if your sister might have grounds for an annulment. You get through the fear of the unknown stuff for her, and she might be more willing to try.

If it makes you feel any better, many of us have dealt with the same things in our families. My father refused to go through the annulment process eventhough he had automatic grounds. My parents were never married in the church because of it. I have 5 brothers, and only one hasn't had at least one divorce, but none have gone through annulment. It is a great sadness for me.

["Kyrie eleison"]

[quote name='Don John of Austria' post='1905192' date='Jun 29 2009, 11:27 AM']how can one whois not living a Catholic life , and has no intention of living a Catholic life, make promises for a child to live a Catholic life.

This might be overcome by a good choice of God Parents.

The issue as awhole however requires more time than I have currently, I will try to get back to it as a soon as I can.[/quote]


'Don John of Austria',

I know my sister has been struggling with her faith as a Catholic since her divorce and remarriage. Her first marriage was abusive and it was her high school sweetheart.

She had a nervous breakdown because of everything surrounding the divorce. She does not want to revisit the past and bring up those bad times which comes with an annulment.

She taught CCD in her years before she was married.

It is a touchy subject with her, as I'm sure it is with other divorcees who are Catholic, especially if the marriage was mentally and physically abusive.

At this point I believe she just wants to feel welcomed and is going to have my nephew baptised at the church she is now attending.

Our family is wondering if she will invite us to his baptism at her new church as she knows how devout my mom is. My mom is worried that is not going to be a valid baptism.

[quote name='OraProMe' post='1905189' date='Jun 29 2009, 10:25 AM']Why the heck would they deny the child the sacraments? The child's not divorced or living in sin and the mother obviously wants to raise it Catholic.




hmmmmmph[/quote]

OraProMe' ,

Well, she is a divorced and remarried in in civil court. There is no way in getting around her situation without getting an annulment from her first marriage and her and her husband getting married in the Catholic Church. The priest has made it clear to her and it made her feel unworthy.

She started attending mass again, just before she finally made her decision to leave, because of the denial of getting my nephew baptised. I feel very sad because she was making the effort to go back to mass and possibly rectifying her situation.

["Kyrie eleison"]

[quote name='CatherineM' post='1905209' date='Jun 29 2009, 11:50 AM']Marriage issues are one of the biggest reasons people leave the church. We hear people talking about leaving because they disagree with the Church about XYZ, or because of the abuse scandal, but the quiet reason is marriage. When I talked to people at the tribunal who had finally filed for annulment after decades away from the church, many said they didn't want to admit they had failed, or they were afraid of the process as some kind of big unknown. You could talk to someone at your local tribunal to explain the process, the paperwork involved, the cost, the timeline, and if your sister might have grounds for an annulment. You get through the fear of the unknown stuff for her, and she might be more willing to try.

If it makes you feel any better, many of us have dealt with the same things in our families. My father refused to go through the annulment process eventhough he had automatic grounds. My parents were never married in the church because of it. I have 5 brothers, and only one hasn't had at least one divorce, but none have gone through annulment. It is a great sadness for me.[/quote]

Catherine,

Thank you for your suggestions, I will inquire about it for her. It does make me feel better to know that others are struggling with the same issue. I just feel that the Church needs to be more sensitive to this issue and I do feel that some priests are very harsh and it turns divorcees away from the Church.

[CatherineM]

[quote name='"Kyrie eleison' post='1905256' date='Jun 29 2009, 11:13 AM']Catherine,

Thank you for your suggestions, I will inquire about it for her. It does make me feel better to know that others are struggling with the same issue. I just feel that the Church needs to be more sensitive to this issue and I do feel that some priests are very harsh and it turns divorcees away from the Church.[/quote]

Priests are like the rest of us, they have their pluses and minuses. Some are better at sermons, some at the financial stuff, and some on the counseling side. I've known priests who all but refused to do the paperwork for annulments because they didn't believe in them. Some have had divorce issues in their families, and the work makes them uncomfortable. There are priests better at it than others, and the local tribunal volunteers can quietly tell you which ones. These issues go to the core of our most tender and vulnerable feelings, and it is often easier to just walk away than endure it. You can tell your sister that I never saw anyone go through the process, and later regret it, even those who were turned down. There is a closure involved that allows people to really move on afterwards. They never have to wonder, and regret the road not taken.

[VeniteAdoremus]

In this day and age, priests should be specially trained to deal with this.

["Kyrie eleison"]

[quote name='VeniteAdoremus' post='1905293' date='Jun 29 2009, 12:29 PM']In this day and age, priests should be specially trained to deal with this.[/quote]


VeniteAdoremus,

Catherine has brought much insight to the subject in her last post. I am sure there are priests who are sensitive and know how to reach out to those who are divorced. It seems to me the older priests are old school and as Catherine said, either don't believe in anullment or are very harsh and insensitive and push those divorcees away.

It does need to be addressed by each parish. We need to help heal those who have gone thru divorce in the Catholic Church. We must pray for this in our Churches, because many do leave.

[dominicansoul]

[quote name='"Kyrie eleison' post='1905298' date='Jun 29 2009, 11:41 AM']VeniteAdoremus,

Catherine has brought much insight to the subject in her last post. I am sure there are priests who are sensitive and know how to reach out to those who are divorced. It seems to me the older priests are old school and as Catherine said, either don't believe in anullment or are very harsh and insensitive and push those divorcees away.

It does need to be addressed by each parish. We need to help heal those who have gone thru divorce in the Catholic Church. We must pray for this in our Churches, because many do leave.[/quote]

We need to pray that people will be more informed about the Holy Sacrament of Holy Matrimony, and come to the right decision in choosing who they marry the first time around...
...it's a serious decision, and one that should not be taken lightly... I have often wondered how a couple can make such promises to the Almighty God, and then not follow through with them...

In your sister's case, you say her husband was abusive... were there absolutely no signs of this while they were dating???

soo many marriages are not blessed, because in our day and age, commitment and respect for one another is lacking...

I believe it was the Blessed Mother at Fatima who predicted that many marriages will not be blessed, and are actually offensive towards God...thus the reasons for the increase in the number of annullments in our day and age

[CatherineM]

[quote name='dominicansoul' post='1905303' date='Jun 29 2009, 11:48 AM']We need to pray that people will be more informed about the Holy Sacrament of Holy Matrimony, and come to the right decision in choosing who they marry the first time around...
...it's a serious decision, and one that should not be taken lightly... I have often wondered how a couple can make such promises to the Almighty God, and then not follow through with them...

In your sister's case, you say her husband was abusive... were there absolutely no signs of this while they were dating???

soo many marriages are not blessed, because in our day and age, commitment and respect for one another is lacking...

I believe it was the Blessed Mother at Fatima who predicted that many marriages will not be blessed, and are actually offensive towards God...thus the reasons for the increase in the number of annullments in our day and age[/quote]

I dated a man for awhile who showed all the signs of becoming abusive later, but I didn't want to see the signs. I was older, and had experience in the world, but still wanted to think the best of someone I thought I wanted to marry. Sometimes abusers don't show themselves until after marriage. You can't blame the victim for not being clairvoyant.

Most of the annulments I was involved in were granted on the grounds of immaturity. That's not age based anymore. Most people aren't really aware of what marriage truly involves until after they marry. That's because our culture doesn't show us real marriages, on TV or at the movies.

["Kyrie eleison"]

[quote name='dominicansoul' post='1905303' date='Jun 29 2009, 11:48 AM']We need to pray that people will be more informed about the Holy Sacrament of Holy Matrimony, and come to the right decision in choosing who they marry the first time around...
...it's a serious decision, and one that should not be taken lightly... I have often wondered how a couple can make such promises to the Almighty God, and then not follow through with them...[/quote]

Yes, this is the first step in combating the problem.

[quote name='dominicansoul' post='1905303' date='Jun 29 2009, 11:48 AM']In your sister's case, you say her husband was abusive... were there absolutely no signs of this while they were dating???[/quote]

She did not know he was bi-polar. She didn't realize how bad he was until they were married. She thought she could change him and did not realize that he had a disease. He is now on medication for it and he too has remarried.

[quote name='dominicansoul' post='1905303' date='Jun 29 2009, 11:48 AM']so many marriages are not blessed, because in our day and age, commitment and respect for one another is lacking...

I believe it was the Blessed Mother at Fatima who predicted that many marriages will not be blessed, and are actually offensive towards God...thus the reasons for the increase in the number of annullments in our day and age[/quote]

It is a sad. Children need to see a marriage where there is respect , love, sacrifice and committment. It really does start in the home. My parent's did not have a perfect marriage, but they did share and still do share the love and committment.

I am glad you brought this up, I would like to renew my vows with my husband in the Church again, as we have gone through rough times in our marriage too.

Edited June 29, 2009 by "Kyrie eleison"

[Don John of Austria]

[quote name='"Kyrie eleison' post='1905222' date='Jun 29 2009, 11:58 AM']'Don John of Austria',

I know my sister has been struggling with her faith as a Catholic since her divorce and remarriage. Her first marriage was abusive and it was her high school sweetheart.

She had a nervous breakdown because of everything surrounding the divorce. She does not want to revisit the past and bring up those bad times which comes with an annulment.

She taught CCD in her years before she was married.

It is a touchy subject with her, as I'm sure it is with other divorcees who are Catholic, especially if the marriage was mentally and physically abusive.

At this point I believe she just wants to feel welcomed and is going to have my nephew baptised at the church she is now attending.

Our family is wondering if she will invite us to his baptism at her new church as she knows how devout my mom is. My mom is worried that is not going to be a valid baptism.



It was not ment to be an attack or anything of the kind. It was just ment to explain to OraProME was to why baptism would not be allowed.

Your mother is devout, I can se it as a problem. I have not had this issue with baptism, but I have refuse d to attend several " weddings" over this issue.

OraProMe' ,

Well, she is a divorced and remarried in in civil court. There is no way in getting around her situation without getting an annulment from her first marriage and her and her husband getting married in the Catholic Church. The priest has made it clear to her and it made her feel unworthy.

She started attending mass again, just before she finally made her decision to leave, because of the denial of getting my nephew baptised. I feel very sad because she was making the effort to go back to mass and possibly rectifying her situation.[/quote]


Weird.... I know i had a post here.

I mean it was responded to!

Edited June 29, 2009 by Don John of Austria

["Kyrie eleison"]

'Don John of Austria',

I did not take it as an attack. My mom is really worried about how she should go about the situation once it is brought up. We wonder if she will even tell us or invite us when my nephew is baptised in the prostestant church.

I love my nephew and sister far too much not to attend. I have and will voice how I feel about it but I will tell her I will attend if invited. It is considered a valid baptism in the Catholic Church, isn't it?

[Don John of Austria]

[quote name='"Kyrie eleison' post='1905320' date='Jun 29 2009, 01:23 PM']'Don John of Austria',

I did not take it as an attack. My mom is really worried about how she should go about the situation once it is brought up. We wonder if she will even tell us or invite us when my nephew is baptised in the prostestant church.

I love my nephew and sister far too much not to attend. I have and will voice how I feel about it but I will tell her I will attend if invited. It is considered a valid baptism in the Catholic Church, isn't it?[/quote]


If it is done in the name of the Trinity ( which is not a given in a megachurch) and it is intended to do what the Church does it should be a valid baptism.

["Kyrie eleison"]

[quote name='Don John of Austria' post='1905323' date='Jun 29 2009, 12:28 PM']If it is done in the name of the Trinity ( which is not a given in a megachurch) and it is intended to do what the Church does it should be a valid baptism.[/quote]

Don,

You state that it will [b]not [/b]be done in the name of the trinity in this mega church, so then it is [b]not [/b]valid. I know my sister intent is to get him baptised and recognized by God, is this intent enough to make it valid?

Edited June 29, 2009 by "Kyrie eleison"

[dominicansoul]

[quote name='CatherineM' post='1905305' date='Jun 29 2009, 11:59 AM']I dated a man for awhile who showed all the signs of becoming abusive later, but I didn't want to see the signs. I was older, and had experience in the world, but still wanted to think the best of someone I thought I wanted to marry. Sometimes abusers don't show themselves until after marriage. You can't blame the victim for not being clairvoyant.[/quote]
No, I'm not even pondering "clairvoyance" here... I'm assuming that in most cases, (not all,) abusers show definite signs of being abusive while dating...

I know plenty of cases of women who were physically, emotionally abused by their boyfriends and still wound up marrying the guy...

Heck, my best friend is still dating and considering marrying a guy who was in a sexual relationship with another girl while being engaged to her! Why? I don't know? We are all telling her to keep away from him, but she's not listening to anyone. Do I see trouble if they were to actually go through and get married? Yes. Certainly. And it breaks my heart to think of what a horrible life she may have if he's unfaithful to her in the marriage...

I don't know if I would consider these women "victims." It seems that even with families and friends opposed, they continue on with a relationship that is dangerous and foolish to be involved in...
[quote]Most of the annulments I was involved in were granted on the grounds of immaturity. That's not age based anymore. Most people aren't really aware of what marriage truly involves until after they marry. That's because our culture doesn't show us real marriages, on TV or at the movies.[/quote]

Well, it's the Church's responsibility to show us what holy marriage is all about. The Church has failed in proper catechesis for the last 40 years, and marriages often fail because people do not know what they are getting into, and with the wrong person. Also, many do not take their Vows very seriously. There is a grave absence of Holy Fear of God these days...

Most of the Wedding prep sessions at my Parish are wishy-washy feel good retreats. Most of the couples that attend are already co-habitating and in sexual relationships and that issue is not even addressed...

If we want to see a difference in the way we view Holy Matrimony, the Church needs to go back to preaching the truth of what it is, what it takes, what it means, who it's for, etc. etc. If some have a hard time accepting it, and it drives some people away from the Church, then that's their loss...

...the same for those who cannot accept the legitimate processes for annulment... some just don't want to hear that it may be their fault, or that the Church cannot accomodate their lifestyle... (and I'm not speaking of Kyrie's sister here, I'm speaking in general...)

[Don John of Austria]

[quote name='"Kyrie eleison' post='1905326' date='Jun 29 2009, 01:33 PM']Don,

You state that it will [b]not [/b]be done in the name of the trinity in this mega church, so then it is [b]not [/b]valid. I know my sister intent is to get him baptised and recognized by God, is this intent enough to make it valid?[/quote]


No it may be done in the name of the Trinity, I am just saying that it may not be, that unlike say a mainline Protestant Church, where you can be assured it is the name of the Trinity, it may not be in the feel good megachurches.

I would ask, I doubt that any pastor in a mega church would refuse to do it inthe name of the Trinity if that was requested. However, if not, it [i]might[/i] only be done in the name of Jesus. Which is not enough.

Intent is not enough unless it is in the Name of the Trinity. The Father, The Son, and The Holy Spirit.

Edited June 29, 2009 by Don John of Austria

[Lil Red]

[quote name='dominicansoul' post='1905371' date='Jun 29 2009, 12:36 PM']Well, it's the Church's responsibility to show us what holy marriage is all about. The Church has failed in proper catechesis for the last 40 years, and marriages often fail because people do not know what they are getting into, and with the wrong person. Also, many do not take their Vows very seriously. There is a grave absence of Holy Fear of God these days...

Most of the Wedding prep sessions at my Parish are wishy-washy feel good retreats. Most of the couples that attend are already co-habitating and in sexual relationships and that issue is not even addressed...

If we want to see a difference in the way we view Holy Matrimony, the Church needs to go back to preaching the truth of what it is, what it takes, what it means, who it's for, etc. etc. If some have a hard time accepting it, and it drives some people away from the Church, then that's their loss...[/quote]
+J.M.J.+
i know of priests who during marriage prep teach it is okay to use contraception.

i think though the USCCB is doing a good thing with their marriage website.

["Kyrie eleison"]

[quote name='Don John of Austria' post='1905401' date='Jun 29 2009, 02:04 PM']No it may be done in the name of the Trinity, I am just saying that it may not be, that unlike say a mainline Protestant Church, where you can be assured it is the name of the Trinity, it may not be in the feel good megachurches.

I would ask, I doubt that any pastor in a mega church would refuse to do it inthe name of the Trinity if that was requested. However, if not, it [i]might[/i] only be done in the name of Jesus. Which is not enough.

Intent is not enough unless it is in the Name of the Trinity. The Father, The Son, and The Holy Spirit.[/quote]

I will definitely have my sister ask whether or not they baptise in the Trinity. Another thing I remember her mentioning about this megachurch is that she can really relate because they have so many differing classes which help you deal with what life challenges you are facing. I looked on their website and they have classes everyday for everything under the sun.