My Sister Has Decided To Leave The Catholic Church

[Norseman82]

[quote name='rachael' post='1908440' date='Jul 2 2009, 06:34 PM']When it comes to an abusive situation, those being abused or around it are often in denial.[/quote]

Additionally, abuse situations can be compared to a lobster boiling in a pot. The heat gets turned on, but it gets hot slowly and steadily without notice until it is too late. In other words, it starts out small, then progressively grows worse, and in between it is always the abused is blamed (maybe if you cleaned your room better, or if you didn't drop the ball, etc. etc. but never the fault of the drunk who comes home after 8 hours at the bar [/sarcasm]).

It is also not helpful that people are made to feel like bad Catholics by being told to just "offer it up" or "its just your cross, shut up and bear it" or being told about a saint that was abused and just "took it" or that if they just stick with the abuser they will win them over to the faith or that if they don't forgive the abuser immediately they cannot receive Holy Communion or say the Our Father.

Edited July 2, 2009 by Norseman82

[rachael]

[quote name='MissyP89' post='1908451' date='Jul 2 2009, 05:43 PM']Hugs to Rach and everyone who has gone through the wringer of abuse. It's never happened to me, but I've seen how it can wreck lives. Prayers.[/quote]
I don't need hugs. The only reason I say anything is in hopes of giving some insight and maybe helping others.

[CatherineM]

[quote name='rachael' post='1908473' date='Jul 2 2009, 06:03 PM']I don't need hugs. The only reason I say anything is in hopes of giving some insight and maybe helping others. [/quote]

Everyone can use hugs.

[Gregoriana of Nyssa]

[quote name='dominicansoul' post='1908166' date='Jul 2 2009, 10:58 AM']You are correct. Many do not show any signs of having abusive behaviors until well into the marriage. My father was abusive towards me in the same way. Both physically and emotionally. I can understand your experience. He also did not show any signs of this before my mother married him... in fact, I often think I triggered this in him...

I was talking more about those instances (and I wonder if this is the majority of the time,) where women marry abusive boyfriends. Those cases where men have definitely shown signs... I know plenty of young ladies in my own circle of friendships and acquaintances, who, having been hurt so often in their dating years, wind up marrying the abusive boyfirend. I never understood this... But I guess, there is that strong committment factor, where the women actually believe they can change their man... or, no matter what they do, they will always stick to them, even if it means being brutalized and destroyed...

Something else has happened to relationships in light of the "sexual revolution" of the '60s. In my own experience, I have met and dated several men, and almost all of them believed that consummation was necessary to have a true relationship! When I wouldn't put out, the relationship always fell through. These men did not last long in my life. Because of the sexually saturated society we live in, I get the feeling most men of our age do not respect women at all---that they have such a skewed vision of the true beauty and dignity of women... It is very difficult to find that special man who has a great love of God and a great respect and love for their woman. I know they are out there, but they are few and far between.

The Sexual Revolution was supposed to "liberate" women. All it really has done is force most women to fall into a hedonistic image that she was never supposed to fill. It has actually bound us females into chains...

I think this society we were raised in and the age we live in have so eroded the way men and women view each other that this is yet another problem that has caused marital stress and breakdown.[/quote]

I agree. I've been noting lately how these days it seems women are supposed to dress sexy, look sexy, and do whatever the guy wants in the bedroom, or "he'll find somebody younger who WILL do" whatever sex act he requires. I agree fully with the branch of feminism that says we should be respected as individuals, not sex objects. But it often seems that this branch has lost out to hedonism. I was once with a guy who was Catholic and said he was "saving himself" for marriage, but he was addicted to porn and had already engaged in various types of sex acts which he insisted were "not sex." I had hoped that a Christian man would respect me and be a good husband--we were engaged--but this was not the case. He wanted all sorts of things I didn't want to do in the bedroom and belittled me and tried to force me into them, abused me emotionally....And when the breakup came, he found ways to make his friends think *I* was the cause. I won't go into details, but "abuse by proxy" came into play here. So whenever I come across some website or blog from some guy who thinks that women should just put out however a man wants if they want to keep him, it makes me sick. I even discovered recently that there are guys who want their women to (trying to keep the post PG-rated) shave in places that aren't supposed to be shaved. It's like they want them to look like little girls. It's deplorable what goes on these days.

[Gregoriana of Nyssa]

[quote name='Norseman82' post='1908472' date='Jul 2 2009, 06:02 PM']Additionally, abuse situations can be compared to a lobster boiling in a pot. The heat gets turned on, but it gets hot slowly and steadily without notice until it is too late. In other words, it starts out small, then progressively grows worse, and in between it is always the abused is blamed (maybe if you cleaned your room better, or if you didn't drop the ball, etc. etc. but never the fault of the drunk who comes home after 8 hours at the bar [/sarcasm]).

It is also not helpful that people are made to feel like bad Catholics by being told to just "offer it up" or "its just your cross, shut up and bear it" or being told about a saint that was abused and just "took it" or that if they just stick with the abuser they will win them over to the faith or that if they don't forgive the abuser immediately they cannot receive Holy Communion or say the Our Father.[/quote]

...Or Protestants being told they should stay with the abuser and "submit" and if they're killed it's for God's glory because they did their duty....

Remember when Amy Grant divorced Gary Chapman? Oh, the fallout! The things people wrote about her and still write to CCM Magazine or on websites! Yet I did a little poking around on the Web, and there is evidence that Chapman mistreated her. How much of that is true I don't know, but it shows why we shouldn't pillory a person for divorcing when they've tried and tried and just can't take it anymore.

Edited July 3, 2009 by Gregoriana of Nyssa

[Norseman82]

[quote name='"Kyrie eleison' post='1908182' date='Jul 2 2009, 12:14 PM']No, I did that many years ago, in my journey back home. I am here to stay![/quote]

My apologies, I misread your post - specifically the word "many".

Mea culpa.

Edited July 4, 2009 by Norseman82

[tinytherese]

[quote name='Norseman82' post='1908472' date='Jul 2 2009, 07:02 PM']It is also not helpful that people are made to feel like bad Catholics by being told to just "offer it up" or "its just your cross, shut up and bear it" or being told about a saint that was abused and just "took it" or that if they just stick with the abuser they will win them over to the faith or that if they don't forgive the abuser immediately they cannot receive Holy Communion or say the Our Father.[/quote]

Well I don't have a problem with someone telling me to take up my cross and to offer up all that I am suffering for my dad in my situation, but that's because when I have been told this it has been said in a loving way so as to ease my pain somewhat and not in a judgmental or cynical way.

[elizabeth09]

She want her son to be Roman Catholic, but not go to the mass? She is always welcome to the mass.

[dairygirl4u2c]

minor quibble of a clarification here.
when i said 'the ordinary joe shouldn't be expected to deal with the complexities of the academics if they aren't firm in their faith to begin with' (idea, they are firm in faith generally, just not specifically catholic) -- you've got those petrine and pauline and mixed up bible verses i gave -- what does an ordinary joe make of the fact it looks like completely arbitrary doctrines are being prepared like those pauline and petrine?
it adds fuel to the fire that says perhaps folks are expecting too much from them.

petrine and pauline do seem pretty arbitrary. how are those principled arguments that have anything to do with divorce being wrong etc? not sure how it work, but it sure looks like a potential rationalization and arbitrary to me. ('not sure why it's that way (and if we were honest, maybe that's not the way it should be done)-- it's just teh way it' always been')

["Kyrie eleison"]

Hello All,

Just an update. I have asked my sister about her plans on baptizing my nephew, as he will be one year old. She is unsure of what she wants to do and has not inquired about it at her church. I have sent her scriptural evidence as to why the Catholic Church has always baptized infants and why we use water.

I have took the liberty to call the church and find out the procedure of their baptisms. They call their ceremonies for infants/children, "dedications." They do not use any form of water. They use full immersion in water in the trinity [b]only[/b] for those who are ready to profess by mouth their belief and make a comittment for Jesus.

I am afraid that this dedication would not fulfill a valid baptism for my nephew. I have read that laypersons could perform baptisms. Could I do this for my nephew. Has anyone ever had to do a baptism in this case? Thanks for all your input.

[CatherineM]

You are right that their infant dedication does not meet the requirements of a valid baptism. Perhaps just knowing that might convince your sister to have him baptized properly.

[Katholikos]

[quote name='"Kyrie eleison' post='1921629' date='Jul 16 2009, 11:32 AM']Hello All,



I am afraid that this dedication would not fulfill a valid baptism for my nephew. I have read that laypersons could perform baptisms. Could I do this for my nephew. Has anyone ever had to do a baptism in this case? Thanks for all your input.[/quote]


Just read this thread and realized your question was left unanswered. Laypersons may baptize only when there is imminent danger of death.

Peace be with you.

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='Katholikos' post='1942628' date='Aug 7 2009, 07:57 AM']Just read this thread and realized your question was left unanswered. Laypersons may baptize only when there is imminent danger of death.

Peace be with you.[/quote]
Likos? Likos!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Katholikos]

[quote name='cmotherofpirl' post='1942657' date='Aug 7 2009, 10:07 AM']Likos? Likos!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! [/quote]

Love you, cmom. Warm hugs.

[Lil Red]

[quote name='Katholikos' post='1942628' date='Aug 7 2009, 04:57 AM']Just read this thread and realized your question was left unanswered. Laypersons may baptize only when there is imminent danger of death.

Peace be with you.[/quote]
+J.M.J.+



LIKOS!!!!

[Katholikos]

Hi, L'il Red. Hope I stay in an upright and locked position this time. Homecoming is good. It pleases me to be Phatmass member # 59. Thanks for the warm welcome. Abrazos (hugs).

[Katholikos]

May I add a word in defense of the Church founded by Christ for the salvation of the world? The Church permits separation or divorce in cases of necessity, which certainly includes abuse. No one should tolerate abuse. However, the fact that a spouse is abusive is, in itself, not grounds for an annulment. There must be a defect in the marriage itself (for example, coercion).

The Church opposes [b][i]remarriage[/i][/b]. Why? Because Christ teaches that “whoever divorces his wife (unless the marriage is unlawful) causes her to commit adultery and whoever marries a divorced woman commits adultery” (Mt 5:32 NAB). The Church grants declarations of nullity in cases where it has been proven in the Church’s Tribunal (court) that no marriage ever existed. (Civil courts do the same, on somewhat different grounds.) However, the Church has no power or authority to dissolve a valid, sacramental marriage.

People get divorced and remarried, then blame the Church for refusing them the Sacraments while they are living in an adulterous relationship. They complain that the Church is not compassionate, but true compassion is the genuine concern the Church has for the souls of her children[b];[/b] she does not permit them to add sacrilege to adultery.

Pray that all her wayward children may return to the Church founded by Christ.

Peace to all who post at Phatmass,

Katholikos