Just Want To Vent

[VeniteAdoremus]

What she said on all accounts.

[Archaeology cat]

[quote name='Terra Firma' post='1914476' date='Jul 8 2009, 09:07 PM']I think it can be a sacrifice of sorts to swallow our objections for the sake of those around us.[/quote]
It is a sacrifice for me if I cannot kneel to receive the Eucharist. But if the Bishop or Priest has asked that I not, then I will obey, difficult as it is. (Though I went to a really cool parish while on holiday, where they even closed the altar rail and used patens and I got to kneel!)

[quote name='MissyP89' post='1915304' date='Jul 9 2009, 07:22 AM']As to the OP (if there is one at this point ), all I have to say is, who are we to disobey the Magisterium who are completely entitled to making pastoral decisions they feel are necessary? And who are we, as members of the [i]universal[/i] Church, to cause division among our brothers? How does that fit in with who we are supposed to be?

Respect the GIRM. Respect your bishop. There's grace in obedience, especially when it's uncomfortable. End of story. [/quote]
Well said.

[Archaeology cat]

dp

Edited July 9, 2009 by Archaeology cat

[Lilllabettt]

This thread is embarrassing.

[Luthien]

[quote name='Terra Firma' post='1915072' date='Jul 9 2009, 01:52 AM']Thanks for your input.

If I was out of line in employing the term "willful ignorance," I apologize. It has not been my intent to malign anyone's character; rather, it has been to encourage all participants in our discussion to adequately support their assertions, taking into account relevant documents.

For what it's worth, while I was impatient at points in this discussion, I never felt angry or judged. I am less than convinced that it is realistic to expect that human exchanges will be angst-free. I personally do not shoot for that as an ideal, whether in an exchange of ideas or otherwise. Sometimes a certain amount of angst is necessary to motivate people to move to a position of truth. Nevertheless, prodding should of course always be done charitably. Again, if I've crossed that line, I apologize.[/quote]

Lovely and gracious response Terra.

I think it would be well for us to remember that we are all susceptible to being uncharitable, and should check and recheck our responses, this board needs to be a good example to others. This thread should be encouraged and should not have to be closed because people are becoming, shall we say, "catty."

[franciscanheart]

[quote name='Maggie' post='1915002' date='Jul 8 2009, 10:19 PM']I think discussing this topic can be helpful but surely I'm not the only one who thinks this particular exchange has been a little... unfriendly. I don't think anyone is being willfully ignorant here, for instance, and it's not a description that would normally be used in a non-angsty exchange of ideas, which is the ideal we shoot for. Unfortunately everyone on both sides of this kind of argument often ends up feeling angry and judged. I often wonder how things go in the Vatican or at Bishops' Conferences behind closed doors when these things are discussed - if this issue is emotional for us, I am sure it also is for bishops and cardinals and the heads of dicasteries.[/quote]
I would like to believe to our bishops and cardinals and even the Pope are all in a better place spiritually, where emotions and cattiness do not interfere with seeing the truth for what it is and making that truth a reality in each of our lives.

[quote name='Luthien' post='1915446' date='Jul 9 2009, 08:22 AM']Lovely and gracious response Terra.

I think it would be well for us to remember that we are all susceptible to being uncharitable, and should check and recheck our responses, this board needs to be a good example to others. This thread should be encouraged and should not have to be closed because people are becoming, shall we say, "catty." [/quote]
Even understanding that you are likely referring to me, I would like to say that I appreciate what you've said here. I know I've been a bit of a hot-head lately and my responses have been less than sugary sweet. I am simply frustrated by a blindness to what is so clearly made available to us by the Church. It's not cool.

I also was operating under an itch to see more charity on the boards and somehow brought way less than I intended. Ironic, huh? It's frustrating to me to come here constantly and see people whining or moaning and groaning about their parishes and what everyone else is doing wrong.

(This applies too to all of the negative criticism I see being exchanged about various members of the phorum. It's become a little too comfortable, I think, and I tend to be uncomfortable with the constant ragging that goes on. It's not necessary, and in my opinion, not appropriate.)

The signature on my email reads:

"What embitters the world is not excess of criticism, but an absence of self -criticism." -- GK Chesterton

I think too often it's easy to point the finger and say how others are wrong instead of taking time to really research what is expected of us and to express our concerns to a priest or bishop.

I understand that it is necessary, at times, for the faithful to "vent" their frustrations, but I think that is best done in a place like a meeting with a confessor or spiritual director.

I do not believe that personal sanctity depends on Church unity, however, I believe the Church would be better off if the faithful would turn inward instead of crying a river of small trials or perceived errors (especially when those circumstances or situations or behaviors are not errors at all).

All of that being said, I can see where I have failed miserably to promote a more charitable environment. I often do not express myself well and am easily frustrated by hostile attitudes towards me, since often when I upset someone, it is out of ignorance, not by stubbornness.

It is my intent from here on out to lift up members of this phorum and to promote their sanctity as much as is possible. If we cannot show each other God's love for us, we are surely to be a miserable population, here and across the world. I want to reflect God's love for each of you, not tear you down or belittle you - though often that's where I end up, sometimes without realizing it.

One last thing: I think sometimes people on these boards will point out mod behavior and use it as an excuse to avoid looking at the evidence. It is frustrating, at least on my end, to have the finger being constantly pointed at the mod label. Many things which I have said would not have even garnered an eye batting had it been said by another member. It's like people here are out for the kill.

Again, it is not my intention to harm in any way another member of this phorum. My apologies go out to anyone who has suffered in any way from my words. Please forgive my ignorance, my stupidity, and/or my lack of charity. It's not what you deserve.

[Nihil Obstat]

I think everyone just needs to take a deep breath. None of this has been necessary.
Maybe that's my maleness talking though.

Who wants a hug??

[Mrs. Bro. Adam]

I'll take one!

[Nihil Obstat]

You got it!


Anyone else?

Edited July 9, 2009 by Nihil Obstat

[Mrs. Bro. Adam]

[quote name='Nihil Obstat' post='1915994' date='Jul 9 2009, 02:00 PM']You got it!


Anyone else?[/quote]

I feel so loved! Thank you!

[Brother Adam]

The best thing to do is start over. Forgive any animosity and lack of charity and strive to love others at all times, especially those who drive you the most crazy. We are all people of good will. I hope we are all able to grow to find ourselves in a place of holiness where we find it impossible to treat or think of others poorly, no matter how they treat us.

We are not the first ones to fight over the Mass.

[img]http://www.timeofthechrist.com/Controversies/Eucharist/files/Disputation_of_the_Eucharist_Raphael.jpg[/img]

[Lil Red]

[quote name='Brother Adam' post='1916014' date='Jul 9 2009, 02:22 PM']The best thing to do is start over. Forgive any animosity and lack of charity and strive to love others at all times, especially those who drive you the most crazy. We are all people of good will. I hope we are all able to grow to find ourselves in a place of holiness where we find it impossible to treat or think of others poorly, no matter how they treat us.

We are not the first ones to fight over the Mass.

[img]http://www.timeofthechrist.com/Controversies/Eucharist/files/Disputation_of_the_Eucharist_Raphael.jpg[/img][/quote]
+J.M.J.+
nor, unfortunately will we be the last to fight over the Mass.

btw, i love that picture. i would dearly love a print of it, but alas, cannot afford it.

[Norseman82]

[quote name='Maggie' post='1914699' date='Jul 8 2009, 06:51 PM']Isn't it unpleasant to watch the Christians eating each other... time was we left such things to the lions. And over a trifling matter, too! If it was something more serious the claws would really come out![/quote]

I just happen to notice that on any Catholic forum, the most heated threads deal with issues where the Church may not have clarified something or has left questions unanswered and we start wading in with our personal preferences and sometimes start acting more Catholic than the Pope. In such cases, unless something is so obvious or shocking to the vast majority of people, we should either take a chill pill or ask Church authorities for clarification, whether it be what is too casual for Mass or, for that matter, the heated debates over the national federalization of poodles. There are bigger issues that need our attention (like cohabiting people giving out communion), and we need to pick our battles and not swallow the camel while straining the gnat.

[Luthien]

Laura:

[franciscanheart]

[quote name='Luthien' post='1916156' date='Jul 9 2009, 06:58 PM']Laura: [/quote]