Multicolored/rainbowish Stole?

[VeniteAdoremus]

[quote name='Nihil Obstat' post='1914808' date='Jul 9 2009, 03:07 AM']I wonder if priests getting ugly stoles is like dads getting ugly ties. [/quote]

Definitely! Our parish priest got a perfectly horrid chasuble, but he does wear it twice a year because it makes the givers so happy.


[quote name='CatherineM' post='1914815' date='Jul 9 2009, 03:13 AM']I made a whole bunch of rainbow stoles once. I had one order, thought it was strange and made it anyway. Thought maybe it was for a sunrise service or something. Then I got about half a dozen other orders. Silly me, I didn't know what that meant. When I finally found out they were going to ministers at a gay denomination, I felt so stupid.[/quote]


Hihihihi

We had the "action lilac stole" here a couple of years ago. People were asked to wear a lilac stole to church in support of wimminpriests. I never actually saw one, just a flyer

[Resurrexi]

I am fairly certain that the rubrics for the celebration of the Sacrament of Penance in the Roman Rite require that the priest wear a purple stole.

The stole itself, though, is not essential for the validity of the sacrament by any means. The stole is neither the matter nor the form of the sacrament, nor does the stole keep the minister from having the correct intention.

[Ziggamafu]

[b]Valid confession:[/b]

-[i]A confession that involves a sincere attempt at being thorough[/i] (you try to remember your mortal sins and list their name, any circumstances that increase the seriousness, and their number with a sincere effort for accuracy; the sincerity of your attempt is what matters, not your unintentional errors).

-[i]Some kind of sorrow for having committed your mortal sin[/i] (even if it is mere sorrow that you've incurred a punishment)

-[i]The resolve not to commit mortal sin ever again[/i] (resolve, not confidence or emotional conviction)

-The priest must convey, in any language, the phrase [i]"I absolve you."[/i]

That is the bare minimum that yields a valid confession. Everything else, while "necessary" in the sense that it is proper to the sacrament, [i]is not absolutely necessary.[/i] In fact, if you are unconscious, all that is needed is the last part. A priest can absolve an unconscious person who was known to be a practical Catholic.

[Thumper]

[quote name='lilac_angel' post='1914751' date='Jul 8 2009, 06:25 PM']I wanted to know if this was normal and simply signified God's promise to the world and priests wore them on certain days or ordinary days or if this was a sign that he's not a good priest to Confess to?[/quote]

I think your first inclination is correct--while purple is prescribed by the rubrics, a rainbow colored stole is not out of keeping with the sacrament of reconciliation:

And God said, "This is the sign of the covenant I am making between me and you and every living creature with you, a covenant for all generations to come: I have set my rainbow in the clouds, and it will be the sign of the covenant between me and the earth. Whenever I bring clouds over the earth and the rainbow appears in the clouds, I will remember my covenant between me and you and all living creatures of every kind. Never again will the waters become a flood to destroy all life. Whenever the rainbow appears in the clouds, I will see it and remember the everlasting covenant between God and all living creatures of every kind on the earth." (Genesis 9: 12-16)

Purple symbolizes our penitence--the rainbow symbolizes God's promise of mercy and forgiveness.

[Dan]

Looking at the Dr. S stoles, it may be simply to appeal to kids.

Since the priest has no idea who is "coming through the door" next, he may wish to make confession as "painless" for the kids in the parish.

Pastel for spring, ugly for father's day in sympathy for the ties, red-white and blue for July, etc.

My parish is quite traditional in the stole selection.

Purple. Reminds me that "When I am old, I shall wear purple..."

[Resurrexi]

[quote name='Ziggamafu' post='1915444' date='Jul 9 2009, 08:20 AM']-[i]Some kind of sorrow for having committed your mortal sin[/i] (even if it is mere sorrow that you've incurred a punishment)[/quote]

I apologize if I'm misunderstanding you, but it seems as if you are saying a merely natural contrition for sin suffices for a valid confession.

The contrition that we must have for a valid confession cannot be merely natural. For example, a murderer cannot be validly absolved if he is only sorry for his murder because he was sentenced to prison for life. A murderer would have to be sorry for his sins because they caused him to be worthy of eternal punishment, or because it was his sins that made Christ suffer the torment of the cross, or because his sins offend the supremely good God, or some other supernatural motive.

"Salutary contrition (contritio salutaris) must be inward, supernatural, general and as to estimation supreme. [. . .] It is supernatural when it occurs under the influence of actual grace and proceeds from a morally good motive directed towards reconciliation with God. A mere natural sorrow has no salutary value. D 813, 1207" (Ott, [i]Fundmentals of Catholic Dogma[/i], p. 427)

[Lil Red]

[quote name='Thumper' post='1915449' date='Jul 9 2009, 07:26 AM']I think your first inclination is correct--while purple is prescribed by the rubrics, a rainbow colored stole is not out of keeping with the sacrament of reconciliation:

And God said, "This is the sign of the covenant I am making between me and you and every living creature with you, a covenant for all generations to come: I have set my rainbow in the clouds, and it will be the sign of the covenant between me and the earth. Whenever I bring clouds over the earth and the rainbow appears in the clouds, I will remember my covenant between me and you and all living creatures of every kind. Never again will the waters become a flood to destroy all life. Whenever the rainbow appears in the clouds, I will see it and remember the everlasting covenant between God and all living creatures of every kind on the earth." (Genesis 9: 12-16)

Purple symbolizes our penitence--the rainbow symbolizes God's promise of mercy and forgiveness.[/quote]
+J.M.J+
good to see you!!

[Resurrexi]

[quote name='Thumper' post='1915449' date='Jul 9 2009, 08:26 AM']I think your first inclination is correct--while purple is prescribed by the rubrics, a rainbow colored stole is not out of keeping with the sacrament of reconciliation:

And God said, "This is the sign of the covenant I am making between me and you and every living creature with you, a covenant for all generations to come: I have set my rainbow in the clouds, and it will be the sign of the covenant between me and the earth. Whenever I bring clouds over the earth and the rainbow appears in the clouds, I will remember my covenant between me and you and all living creatures of every kind. Never again will the waters become a flood to destroy all life. Whenever the rainbow appears in the clouds, I will see it and remember the everlasting covenant between God and all living creatures of every kind on the earth." (Genesis 9: 12-16)

Purple symbolizes our penitence--the rainbow symbolizes God's promise of mercy and forgiveness.[/quote]

Regardless of what symbolism you may read into a rainbow stole, the rubrics must be followed.

[StColette]

[quote name='lilac_angel' post='1914778' date='Jul 8 2009, 07:45 PM']Thank you. No, I just wasn't sure about rainbow because you know what that's typically associated with; if he was trying to advertise or symbolize something with it on purpose that was against Church teaching.

But yes, everything else seemed kosher.[/quote]

The Rainbow traditionally is a symbol of the covenant of God. The priest might choose to wear a rainbow type stole in order to symbolize the fact that when we go to confession our sins are absolved and our covenant with God is renewed in a sense.

[quote name='Resurrexi' post='1915463' date='Jul 9 2009, 09:53 AM']Regardless of what symbolism you may read into a rainbow stole, the rubrics must be followed.[/quote]


And you're right regardless of the symbolism that the priest may have been trying to convey, the rubrics should be followed. But as it has been establish it doesn't make the Sacrament invalid.

[CatherineM]

[quote name='Resurrexi' post='1915463' date='Jul 9 2009, 08:53 AM']Regardless of what symbolism you may read into a rainbow stole, the rubrics must be followed.[/quote]

Gosh, I'm glad you weren't the theological adviser to my priest the night I almost died. I was lucky he showed up in his pants, let alone with all the proper vestments. He didn't even stop for his sick kit. He just grabbed the cruet on the way out of the rectory. He just about drowned me in oil because of using it.

[Thumper]

[quote name='Lil Red' post='1915460' date='Jul 9 2009, 08:50 AM']+J.M.J+
good to see you!![/quote]

Thanks! On occasion, I lurk.


[quote name='Resurrexi' post='1915463' date='Jul 9 2009, 08:53 AM']Regardless of what symbolism you may read into a rainbow stole, the rubrics must be followed.[/quote]

I'm not advocating ignoring rubrics left, right, and center. However, Lilac_angel was making the connection between the rainbow in the stole and the rainbow of the covenant, and I wanted to affirm her insight into the inherent Christian symbolism in light of the sacrament of reconciliation.

[Ziggamafu]

[quote name='Resurrexi' post='1915456' date='Jul 9 2009, 09:43 AM']I apologize if I'm misunderstanding you, but it seems as if you are saying a merely natural contrition for sin suffices for a valid confession.

The contrition that we must have for a valid confession cannot be merely natural. For example, a murderer cannot be validly absolved if he is only sorry for his murder because he was sentenced to prison for life. [b]A murderer would have to be sorry for his sins because they caused him to be worthy of eternal punishment, or because it was his sins that made Christ suffer the torment of the cross, or because his sins offend the supremely good God, or some other supernatural motive. [/b]
"Salutary contrition (contritio salutaris) must be inward, supernatural, general and as to estimation supreme. [. . .] It is supernatural when it occurs under the influence of actual grace and proceeds from a morally good motive directed towards reconciliation with God. A mere natural sorrow has no salutary value. D 813, 1207" (Ott, [i]Fundmentals of Catholic Dogma[/i], p. 427)

[/quote]

Correct. My fault for the ambiguity.

I would think that the very fact that a person is appealing to a supernatural sacrament for forgiveness would typically presuppose a supernaturally-inclined sorrow of some type.

Edited July 10, 2009 by Ziggamafu

[lilac_angel]

[quote name='Ziggamafu' post='1916632' date='Jul 10 2009, 10:42 AM']Correct. My fault for the ambiguity.

I would think that the very fact that a person is appealing to a supernatural sacrament for forgiveness would typically presuppose a supernaturally-inclined sorrow of some type.[/quote]

Also the absolute resolve not to do it again seems to fulfill the conditions quoted by Ressurexi; I don't think they'd go to a priest if they didn't feel they offended God. This very directly shows true contrition.

Thanks for the help; I can get frustrated by all the uncertainties and discouraged (it was my sixth attempt) so I'm glad at least the majority of people think that I was absolved.

There will always be a bit of worry if there's any doubt, but I really don't want to have to go again to another priest and Confess those sins for a 3rd time when the priest seemed to fulfill the listed necessary conditions for Confession.

Edited July 10, 2009 by lilac_angel