Centering Prayer

[Thy Geekdom Come]

I got into a little friendly debate with someone I know today because she was asking about the Church's position on centering prayer. I said that most theologians condemn it, though I've never seen anything explicit from the Vatican. Then she started doing the whole, "well I do centering prayer and it helps my spirituality." So I clarified that we have to be very careful addressing the topic because there are a lot of people who use the term "centering prayer" to refer to a wide range of things. She said, "well, centering prayer is emptying yourself of everything but an awareness of God's presence and focusing on Him." I said, "well, a lot of centering prayer advocates say that it's focusing on nothingness for the sake of nothingness, which is obviously wrong." She agreed.

Do you guys think that the Church needs to come out with a statement clarifying terms and clearing up this whole mess? There are a lot of confused people out there who want nothing to do with faulty spirituality, but get into using incorrect terms ("centering prayer" instead of "contemplation") and end up in heterodox circles, or at the very least, being confused about authentic spirituality.

[CatherineM]

The problem is that sometimes when the church gets around to defining a term, the words we use have changed too. What the new agers call centering prayers used to be called other stuff 10-20-30 years ago. Nothing changes, but the term we call it. It would be nice if we defined things that while technically okay, can be dangerous to those not well grounded in their faith.

[Thy Geekdom Come]

That's just one more reason to appreciate that the Church defines things in a language that no longer changes. There are no more Latin colloquialisms to muddy the waters.

[TeresaBenedicta]

A lot of the great "masters" of prayer do, in some senses touch on this... I was just reading something that relates. This is from Thomas H. Green, S.J. in his [i]When the Well Runs Dry[/i]. He's talking about the business of life and how our attention span can be very small.

[quote]The college student studying in front of the TV, with people constantly coming an going in the room, is an apt symbol for our distracted age. Even at the natural level people realize this not good or healthy; that is why techniques such as transcendental meditation are in such vogue today. They are laborious, but they produce a quieting, a centering which makes the effort worthwhile for their practitioners.

Teresa [of Avila] sees the same kind of centering as necessary for genuine prayer... It is the essential preliminary step in a genuine life of prayer. But Christian prayer is not just another technique for achieving quiet and concetration, even in the initial meditative stages of dring water by hand from the well...[/quote]

[Fr. Antony Maria OSB]

I agree with what TeresaBenedicta said. If you know where to look, the answers are out there. This problem isn't only with centering prayer, but many more areas of theology, so really I would say that what we need, more than an official Church statement defining centering prayer vs. contemplation, is more education about prayer in the Church. I mean, the Catechism does an amazing job at defining prayer in all its forms, Teresa of Avila does it greatly, as well, as well as many more Church fathers and saints. The problem with learning about prayer more deeply, though (and not even deeply, sometimes just an overview a little beyond the CCC), is that in many cases what has to be done is read works that don't specifically deal with prayer but in which the author talks about prayer indirectly and learn by that means. I don't know that many people know how exactly to read in this manner now a days, and so that also becomes another problem. Prayer is so liquid in the sense that as the means of communication with God it is in many ways unique to each individual, although there are many similarities, and so hard to even study beyond personal experience, that it is simply a difficult topic to begin with to narrow down and try to make cut and dry terms for it.

[Brother Adam]

I'm not sure that clarification would do any good for the average liberal NPR Catholic that already rejects most Catholic teaching when it is convenient. It is already apparent through the writings of the saints & scripture that New Age centering prayer is excessively dangerous and can destroy one's relationship with God on levels that make the knowledgeable shudder.

It is important for catechists to clarify that the more advanced levels of Teresian prayer are not centering prayer. We need to help them define the terms of lay Catholics so those who do not practice centering prayer do not call it centering prayer. That way other Catholics don't get confused when they hear someone who they look up to in the faith refer that they do centering prayer and think its the destructive kind.

It is also just as important to continue to evangelize liberal Catholics who have abandoned the faith for their own version of Catholicism and help them see how what they are doing is not drawing them closer to God, but farther away from God. We will there face the problem of emotionalism and it will be difficult.

It would be great and all if the Church would write a document clarifying that centering prayer is not prayer, but it seems obvious as it is that it is not in any form prayer or meditation as its purpose is not communion with God.

[StColette]

[quote name='Brother Adam' post='1916338' date='Jul 10 2009, 12:49 AM']It is important for catechists to clarify that the more advanced levels of Teresian prayer are not centering prayer. We need to help them define the terms of lay Catholics so those who do not practice centering prayer do not call it centering prayer. That way other Catholics don't get confused when they hear someone who they look up to in the faith refer that they do centering prayer and think its the destructive kind.[/quote]

This is exactly the problem that was taking place. The person was calling contemplation or Teresian prayer, centering prayer. Micah and I both kept explain that the term centering prayer is not proper to use in describing the type of prayer this person does. The type of prayer this person was participating in is contemplation, not centering prayer. We tried explaining that calling something centering prayer that isn't centering prayer can be dangerous and misleading. The person was so on the defensive though that I'm afraid it went in one ear and out the other.

[Nihil Obstat]

[quote name='Brother Adam' post='1916338' date='Jul 9 2009, 11:49 PM']It is also just as important to continue to evangelize liberal Catholics who have abandoned the faith for their own version of Catholicism and help them see how what they are doing is not drawing them closer to God, but farther away from God. We will there face the problem of emotionalism and it will be difficult.[/quote]
It's sad that this is the state we're in right now, isn't it? At the moment I count this as the biggest thing I have to deal with day to day... Arg.
Sorry.
[/hijack]

[philothea]

[quote name='StColette' post='1916621' date='Jul 10 2009, 11:16 AM']This is exactly the problem that was taking place. The person was calling contemplation or Teresian prayer, centering prayer. Micah and I both kept explain that the term centering prayer is not proper to use in describing the type of prayer this person does. The type of prayer this person was participating in is contemplation, not centering prayer. We tried explaining that calling something centering prayer that isn't centering prayer can be dangerous and misleading. The person was so on the defensive though that I'm afraid it went in one ear and out the other.[/quote]
Yeah, I've had that conversation a lot. Going both ways, actually -- people doing Eastern meditation who thought they were contemplatives, as well as using Eastern/new-age terms to describe actual Christian prayer.

The fact that "meditation" is used as the appropriate term for [i]entirely unrelated[/i] methods of both Eastern and Christian prayer seems to be an underlying cause of the widespread confusion. Drives me bananas.

[cmotherofpirl]

Can someone post a catholic link explaining the different terms?

[StColette]

[quote name='cmotherofpirl' post='1920581' date='Jul 15 2009, 12:15 PM']Can someone post a catholic link explaining the different terms?[/quote]

[url="http://www.catholic.com/thisrock/1997/9711fea1.asp"]The Danger of Centering Prayer - This Rock 1997[/url]

[url="http://discalcedcarmelites.net/docs/Lectio_Divina_and_Praxis_of_Teresian_Prayer.pdf"]Lectio Divina and Teresian Prayer[/url]


[url="http://www.ocd.pcn.net/nuns/n3_en.htm"]Teresian Prayer[/url]

Hope those help, Cmom.

[philothea]

My favorite contemporary author on the subject of prayer, Fr. Thomas Dubay, has [url="http://www.catholicculture.org/culture/library/view.cfm?id=5069"]this article[/url], defining various terms.

[Guest Jon]

[quote name='StColette' post='1920590' date='Jul 15 2009, 11:30 AM'][url="http://www.catholic.com/thisrock/1997/9711fea1.asp"]The Danger of Centering Prayer - This Rock 1997[/url]

[url="http://discalcedcarmelites.net/docs/Lectio_Divina_and_Praxis_of_Teresian_Prayer.pdf"]Lectio Divina and Teresian Prayer[/url]


[url="http://www.ocd.pcn.net/nuns/n3_en.htm"]Teresian Prayer[/url]

Hope those help, Cmom.[/quote]


[color="#000080"]Well, they are now bookmarked - thank you so much.

Jon[/color]

[zunshynn]

It's been a while since I looked at the document [url="http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/pontifical_councils/interelg/documents/rc_pc_interelg_doc_20030203_new-age_en.html"]Jesus Christ, the Bearer of the Water of Life[/url], but I really thought it talked about Centering Prayer. I'm not finding anything though.

I think it's very problematic that types of prayers that really are very Christian, such as contemplation and meditation, like you said, are being tied in with new age practices simply because it's vogue. It's like someone started calling these things "centering prayer" because that would make it more with the times. But its so dangerous... because people start to think they're the same thing. And it doesn't help that religious are often the ones teaching yoga and eastern meditation, as if they are compatible with Christianity.

I think part of the problem is that we live in a culture that stops short of keeping in mind the real purpose of things. Why do we pray? To converse with our creator and savior. Whereas now, people think the goal of prayer is to "feel a certain way." So as long as doing something makes me "feel this certain way", makes me feel fulfilled then it's all prayer! It's all good... but it is very different. It doesn't really meet the end of what prayer actually is.

[philothea]

[quote name='zunshynn' post='1932474' date='Jul 26 2009, 02:42 PM']I think part of the problem is that we live in a culture that stops short of keeping in mind the real purpose of things. Why do we pray? To converse with our creator and savior. Whereas now, people think the goal of prayer is to "feel a certain way." So as long as doing something makes me "feel this certain way", makes me feel fulfilled then it's all prayer! It's all good... but it is very different. It doesn't really meet the end of what prayer actually is.[/quote]
That's a great insight.