Centering Prayer

[TeresaBenedicta]

I'm glad this topic came back up, because it's been a topic of discussion (kind of) with my spiritual director.

[quote name='StColette' post='1916621' date='Jul 10 2009, 12:16 PM']This is exactly the problem that was taking place. The person was calling contemplation or Teresian prayer, centering prayer. Micah and I both kept explain that the term centering prayer is not proper to use in describing the type of prayer this person does. The type of prayer this person was participating in is contemplation, not centering prayer. We tried explaining that calling something centering prayer that isn't centering prayer can be dangerous and misleading. The person was so on the defensive though that I'm afraid it went in one ear and out the other.[/quote]

During my last meeting with my s/d, we talked about contemplation and centering prayer specifically. And he used the term 'centering prayer' to describe a certain technique that helps beginners of contemplation to cooperate with the work the Lord is attempting to accomplish in them. The term is also used in a well-known work called "The Cloud of Unknowing" which is an early work on contemplation.

So, I think there has been, at least traditionally, a place in Christianity for the term "centering prayer." It's more dangerous now, because of the Eastern connotations connected with the term. I think what is needed is a careful explanation, not necessarily the rejection of the term itself.

[Brother Adam]

Which is a good reason to avoid the term for now - how many people will we be able to go into that much conversation with all to say "so that is why I said 'centering prayer'". Contemplation works better.

[TeresaBenedicta]

[quote name='Brother Adam' post='1935983' date='Jul 31 2009, 12:06 AM']Which is a good reason to avoid the term for now - how many people will we be able to go into that much conversation with all to say "so that is why I said 'centering prayer'". Contemplation works better.[/quote]

I agree with you, for the most part. But it does seem as though there is a slight distinction between the two. I suppose I would say that centering prayer is within contemplation. As in, it's a technique that helps with contemplation.

I've found, at least for myself, when I was first learning about contemplative prayer, I was very confused. No matter how many times people tried to explain it, I just couldn't understand. Granted, experience has helped a lot. But also understanding true centering prayer has been helpful.

All of these terms, however, are going to be detrimental to beginners in prayer. Even if they're defined properly, if one is just not ready in their stage of prayer, it won't be helpful and may even prove harmful.

It's like trying to understand calculus before learning algebra. Should we throw away the terms for calculus? Not completely. But we should refrain from using them with those that it would only harm. The beginning of the "Cloud of Unknowing" warns its readers to only give the book to those who are ready for it, that it would be very detrimental if given to those who aren't.

[cappie]

Centering Prayer Meets the Vatican : [url="http://www.catholicculture.org/culture/library/view.cfm?id=6892&CFID=11728207&CFTOKEN=40244720"]http://www.catholicculture.org/culture/lib...FTOKEN=40244720[/url]

[philothea]

[quote name='TeresaBenedicta' post='1935988' date='Jul 30 2009, 10:16 PM']I agree with you, for the most part. But it does seem as though there is a slight distinction between the two. I suppose I would say that centering prayer is within contemplation. As in, it's a technique that helps with contemplation.

I've found, at least for myself, when I was first learning about contemplative prayer, I was very confused. No matter how many times people tried to explain it, I just couldn't understand. Granted, experience has helped a lot. But also understanding true centering prayer has been helpful.[/quote]
I don't see why anyone needs a technique to help with contemplation. It happens, or it doesn't. You can't make it happen, and you can't stop it if it is. If it's happening and you don't know what's going on, you might need someone to tell you what you're experiencing, and how it's appropriate to behave, but that's all.

If someone wants to achieve contemplative prayer, they need to work on humility, self-denial, obedience, and remaining constant in [i]ordinary[/i] prayer. The idea that there's a trick to getting there is honestly kind of scary.

[quote name='cappie' post='1937685' date='Aug 1 2009, 01:55 AM']Centering Prayer Meets the Vatican : [url="http://www.catholicculture.org/culture/library/view.cfm?id=6892&CFID=11728207&CFTOKEN=40244720"]http://www.catholicculture.org/culture/lib...FTOKEN=40244720[/url][/quote]
Woo, fabulous article! Thanks, Cappie!

[zunshynn]

[quote name='philothea' post='1937926' date='Aug 1 2009, 09:34 AM']I don't see why anyone needs a technique to help with contemplation. It happens, or it doesn't. You can't make it happen, and you can't stop it if it is. If it's happening and you don't know what's going on, you might need someone to tell you what you're experiencing, and how it's appropriate to behave, but that's all.

If someone wants to achieve contemplative prayer, they need to work on humility, self-denial, obedience, and remaining constant in [i]ordinary[/i] prayer. The idea that there's a trick to getting there is honestly kind of scary.[/quote]

I agree... contemplation is a gift from God, not something you learn to do... And the only way of opening yourself to recieve that gift is by practicing charity and self-denial in the nitty gritty day to day life. You can be taught ways of meditating, sure... and ways of praying, but that's a matter of more learning to be disciplined in prayer regardless of how it feels... but it's easy to get attached to a method of prayer, which is not good. And the depth of your spiritual life can only be measured by the degree of patience that you have with the person you like the least, not in how long and how well you can meditate...

Contemplation is really a mystery... It's not something you can read a book about, or have someone explain to you, and suddenly you understand. Especially because within contemplation, God has to have the freedom to be able to reach different souls in different ways to different degrees at different times. There isn't this cookie cutter for someone reaching the state of contemplation.

And it really is kind of dangerous territory to try to "do something" to reach contemplation. What if you don't experience what you expected contemplation to be? Do you give up? Decide it was all a joke? Get upset? Contemplation for a person might not

[TeresaBenedicta]

[quote name='philothea' post='1937926' date='Aug 1 2009, 12:34 PM']I don't see why anyone needs a technique to help with contemplation. It happens, or it doesn't. You can't make it happen, and you can't stop it if it is. If it's happening and you don't know what's going on, you might need someone to tell you what you're experiencing, and how it's appropriate to behave, but that's all.

If someone wants to achieve contemplative prayer, they need to work on humility, self-denial, obedience, and remaining constant in [i]ordinary[/i] prayer. The idea that there's a trick to getting there is honestly kind of scary.[/quote]

I don't think it's about trying to "reach" contemplation or having a "trick" for it. Not by any means.

It's about how to respond to what God is doing in your prayer-life, especially if it's something new to you. It's not meant to be a permanent fixture in your prayer. But when so many people run in the opposite direction the minute God tries to give them the gift of contemplative prayer, it can be helpful to know how to respond. It's meant to [i]help[/i] keep constancy in prayer. It's not something that you think to yourself, "Hey, I want to do contemplative prayer now... let's see... centering prayer, that's the way!"

[philothea]

[quote name='TeresaBenedicta' post='1939201' date='Aug 2 2009, 07:35 PM']I don't think it's about trying to "reach" contemplation or having a "trick" for it. Not by any means.

It's about how to respond to what God is doing in your prayer-life, especially if it's something new to you. It's not meant to be a permanent fixture in your prayer. But when so many people run in the opposite direction the minute God tries to give them the gift of contemplative prayer, it can be helpful to know how to respond. It's meant to [i]help[/i] keep constancy in prayer. It's not something that you think to yourself, "Hey, I want to do contemplative prayer now... let's see... centering prayer, that's the way!"[/quote]
Could you clarify, then? I misunderstood when you described Centering Prayer as "a technique which helps with contemplation." What is the technique, and in what way does it help?

[TeresaBenedicta]

[quote name='philothea' post='1939420' date='Aug 2 2009, 11:59 PM']Could you clarify, then? I misunderstood when you described Centering Prayer as "a technique which helps with contemplation." What is the technique, and in what way does it help?[/quote]

Sure. The following is from [i]The Cloud of Unknowing[/i]:

The author is first speaking of how to conduct oneself when the pray-er has been called by God to a contemplative prayer. Prior to this excerpt, he has been talking about leaving behind thoughts of God & meditation on our own sinfulness-- these we have done before and they are good things, but what God has called us to is much better. Thus he says,

[i]"But a person who has long pondered the things must eventually leave them behind beneath a cloud of forgetting if he hopes to pierce the cloud of unknowing the lies between him and his God. So whenever you feel drawn by grace to the contemplative work and are determined to do it, simply raise your heart to God with a gentle stirring of love. Think only of God, the God who created you, redeemed you, and guided you to this work. Allow no other ideas about God to enter your mind. Yet even this is too much. A naked intent toward God, the desire for him alone, is enough.

[b]If you want to gather all your desire into one simple word that the mind can easily retain, choose a short word rather than a long one. A one-syllable word such as 'God' or 'love' is best. But choose one that is meaning ful to you. Then fix it in your mind so that it will remain there come what may. This word will be your defense in conflict and in peace... Should some thought go on annoying you demanding to know what you are doing, answer with this one word alone. If your mind begins to intellectualize over the meaning and connotations of this little word, remind yourself that its value lies in its simplicity. Do this and I assure you these thoughts will vanish. Why? Because you have refused to develop them with arguing."[/b][/i]

The bolded part is the so-called "technique." St. Theresa of Avila used the "Jesus prayer."

It's supposed to help the pray-er who is not accostumed to contemplative prayer, but [i]with the guidance of a spiritual director[/i] has recognized God's call to such. John of the Cross says that often times folks who have reached this point in prayer never proceed further in the spiritual life. Why? I think it's because it can be confusing... It's as though in one minute God has completely hidden himself from you... and most pray-ers don't know what that means and how to respond to it when they go to prayer. Since meditation is no longer possible and prayer is no longer easy, many will try to fill up this time of prayer with litanies, set prayers, etc. Or some will stop going to prayer at all.

I think this "technique" is to help with those who are attempting to persevere, but don't know how to "be still" in prayer. To them, it feels as though nothing is going on in prayer and that it's their fault. There are distractions and the inability to concentrate at all.

And it's not meant to be a long-term solution, by any means. But it is supposed to help the pray-er grow to be at peace with the silence and the darkness.

And, it's not something meant for beginners. It's not meant to be a "technique" in the same sense as meditation techniques, etc. It's really something that should be advised by a spiritual director, in regards to where one is spiritually. Not "general" prayer advice, ya know?

[Apotheoun]

Hesychia, which uses the Jesus Prayer, is about stillness of heart, and involves clearing the mind of all mental images.

[Nihil Obstat]

Pope Benedict wrote in his Spirit of the Liturgy about this sort of subject, briefly. He did warn of the potential theological conflict, but he didn't go so far as to say that there's no place for, from what he described, sounded quite similar to what we're discussing.

[Apotheoun]

From the [i]Philokalia[/i]:

"Thus, if we want to realize and know the truth and not to be led astray, let us seek to possess only the heart-engrafted energy in a way that is totally without shape or form, not trying to contemplate in our imagination what we take to be the figure or similitude of things holy or to see any colors or lights. For in the nature of things the spirit of delusion deceives the intellect through such spurious fantasies, especially at the early stages, in those who are still inexperienced."

St. Gregory of Sinai, [i]On the Signs of Grace & Delusion[/i]

[Thy Geekdom Come]

[quote name='Apotheoun' date='19 August 2009 - 03:16 PM' timestamp='1250709388' post='1952724']
From the [i]Philokalia[/i]:

"Thus, if we want to realize and know the truth and not to be led astray, let us seek to possess only the heart-engrafted energy in a way that is totally without shape or form, not trying to contemplate in our imagination what we take to be the figure or similitude of things holy or to see any colors or lights. For in the nature of things the spirit of delusion deceives the intellect through such spurious fantasies, especially at the early stages, in those who are still inexperienced."

St. Gregory of Sinai, [i]On the Signs of Grace & Delusion[/i]
[/quote]

There's a distinction to be made between a spirituality based on the realization that God is beyond our imagining, a spirituality which begins with meditation on the Revelation He has given us but does not cling to those images so strongly that we will resist the Holy Spirit's movements of our prayer into Contemplation...there's a distinction between that and a spirituality based on meditation on nothingness qua nothingness. The non-Christian centering prayer that has infiltrated certain circles in the Church is based not on being completely open to the Holy Spirit's work in our prayer life (which is of course a good spirituality), but on being closed to any thoughts at all, even thoughts of God, and even thoughts God may place in our minds Himself. The centering prayer we are speaking of is of the Buddhist variety, a self-annihilating, nihilistic spirituality used to seek "nirvana" in nothingness. It is wholly incompatible with Christian prayer.

By the way, on a side-note, I find it potentially harmful for you to cite a quote on a Catholic forum as coming from a saint when the Catholic Church does not recognize him as such (since he was Orthodox). That's not necessarily to say he was wrong, but I think you run the danger of misleading some Catholics who might take his word for it because he's cited as a saint, when in reality, we do not acknowledge him as such.

[Apotheoun]

[quote name='Raphael' date='30 August 2009 - 07:45 AM' timestamp='1251639925' post='1958267']
There's a distinction to be made between a spirituality based on the realization that God is beyond our imagining, a spirituality which begins with meditation on the Revelation He has given us but does not cling to those images so strongly that we will resist the Holy Spirit's movements of our prayer into Contemplation...there's a distinction between that and a spirituality based on meditation on nothingness qua nothingness. The non-Christian centering prayer that has infiltrated certain circles in the Church is based not on being completely open to the Holy Spirit's work in our prayer life (which is of course a good spirituality), but on being closed to any thoughts at all, even thoughts of God, and even thoughts God may place in our minds Himself. The centering prayer we are speaking of is of the Buddhist variety, a self-annihilating, nihilistic spirituality used to seek "nirvana" in nothingness. It is wholly incompatible with Christian prayer.

By the way, on a side-note, I find it potentially harmful for you to cite a quote on a Catholic forum as coming from a saint when the Catholic Church does not recognize him as such (since he was Orthodox). That's not necessarily to say he was wrong, but I think you run the danger of misleading some Catholics who might take his word for it because he's cited as a saint, when in reality, we do not acknowledge him as such.
[/quote]
St. Gregory of Sinai, like St. Gregory Palamas, and other "Eastern Orthodox" saints are venerated in the liturgies of the Eastern Catholic Churches.

[StColette]

[quote name='Apotheoun' date='30 August 2009 - 12:53 PM' timestamp='1251651209' post='1958327']
St. Gregory of Sinai, like St. Gregory Palamas, and other "Eastern Orthodox" saints are venerated in the liturgies of the Eastern Catholic Churches.
[/quote]

Todd, could you provide a reference to this, please? I've tried searching one online and found like one from wiki and one that didn't seem very scholarly or give too much detail.