Abortion.

[Varg]

I'd just like to start off by saying that I don't "like" the idea of abortion. I don't understand how anyone can "like" the idea of killing anyone, let alone something that hadn't had a chance at life. What's more I understand why people want abortion banned. But I think it should be allowed. I'm not a troll because trolls are idiots who try to upset as many people as possible to make themselves feel better about their own existence. I'm just stating my opinion.

Here's a hypothetical scenario: a woman gets raped. She becomes pregnant but decides to keep the baby, despite the fact that it was concieved through a malicious and dispicable act and she has no idea who the father is. Evertime she sees her child she is reminded of the time she was raped. The child is likely to hate itself once it finds out how it was concieved. Is this right? No, it isn't.

And what of underage mothers or mothers who aren't financially apt or responsible enough to be parents? The child has a miserable life and so does the mother/parents. Women who get pregnant whilst still in education will have to sacrifice their social lives and their education. This, in my opinion, is not right.

Discuss

Edited July 16, 2009 by Varg

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='Varg' post='1921771' date='Jul 16 2009, 04:50 PM']I'd just like to start off by saying that I don't "like" the idea of abortion. I don't understand how anyone can "like" the idea of killing anyone, let alone something that hadn't had a chance at life. But I think it should be allowed. I'm not a troll because trolls are idiots who try to upset as many people as possible to make themselves feel better about their own existence. I'm just stating my opinion.

Here's a hypothetical scenario: a woman gets raped. She becomes pregnant but decides to keep the baby, despite the fact that it was concieved through a malicious and dispicable act and she has no idea who the father is. Evertime she sees her child she is reminded of the time she was raped. The child is likely to hate itself once it finds out how it was concieved. Is this right? No, it isn't.

And what of underage mothers or mothers who aren't financially apt or responsible enough to be parents? The child has a miserable life and so does the mother/parents. Women who get pregnant whilst still in education will have to sacrifice their social lives and their education. This, in my opinion, is not right.

Discuss[/quote]

You are making too many assumptions that don't hold water when examined. You have no clue if the mother will hate the child - after all the child did nothing wrong.
You have no clue if the child will hate anyone - hate is taught, not genetic.
How do you know that a child born to poor parents are going to turn out badly and what are your qualifications to decide this? How are you going to decide who is too poor to have or raise children?
Where do you get the idea that murdering a child will solve problems of the mothers?

[QuoteMan]

I feel that abortion is very unfair. It's like throwing a brick at someone when they're not expecting it....

[Maximilianus]

What's not right is murdering a baby based on assumptions.

[Varg]

[quote name='cmotherofpirl' post='1921775' date='Jul 16 2009, 04:01 PM']Where do you get the idea that murdering a child will solve problems of the mothers?[/quote]There are laws restricting how long you can leave the pregnancy before having an abortion, so it would be a foetus not a child.

[Varg]

[quote name='Maximilianus' post='1921786' date='Jul 16 2009, 04:19 PM']What's not right is murdering a baby based on assumptions.[/quote]What "assumptions"?

[elizabeth09]

I have to agree. Dose the mother know if the baby is going to save her life one day?

[icelandic_iceskater]

[quote name='Varg' post='1921771' date='Jul 16 2009, 04:50 PM']Here's a hypothetical scenario: a woman gets raped.

And what of underage mothers or mothers who aren't financially apt or responsible enough to be parents?[/quote]
How the circumstances of conception change the personhood of the individual conceived?

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='Varg' post='1921823' date='Jul 16 2009, 05:57 PM']There are laws restricting how long you can leave the pregnancy before having an abortion, so it would be a foetus not a child.[/quote]

Those laws are circumvented by doctors all the time, and the term fetus is latin for little child.

[elizabeth09]

Yes, we all have to die at some point. Being Pro-Life, it hard, because you then have the people who are Pro-Choose. Yes, we do have some say in life, but taking a human life is not how to hadle it. The mother needs to have the child, then either put into a home where they will take the child or have the parent (who are willing to take in the child). I think that this way the child`s life is save and have a better life. If you ever get the chace, watch [font="Arial Black"]Come What May[/font], very good movie.

Edited July 16, 2009 by elizabeth09

[Varg]

What's the Catholic view on euthanasia? I'm just curious

[Selah]

[quote]What's the Catholic view on euthanasia? I'm just curious[/quote]

As far as people go-we're against it.

As far as animals go-well, I'm against it

[Jesus_lol]

[quote name='QuoteMan' post='1921778' date='Jul 16 2009, 02:05 PM']It's like throwing a brick at someone when they're not expecting it....[/quote]

is it bad that i have done that before?


twice?




to be fair my brother deserved it the second time.

[Christie_M]

[quote name='QuoteMan' post='1921778' date='Jul 16 2009, 02:05 PM']I feel that abortion is very unfair. It's like throwing a brick at someone when they're not expecting it....[/quote]


[quote name='Jesus_lol' post='1921861' date='Jul 16 2009, 03:43 PM']is it bad that i have done that before?


twice?




to be fair my brother deserved it the second time.[/quote]

no one deserves to have a brick thrown at them...

[Oliver]

[quote name='Varg' post='1921771' date='Jul 16 2009, 09:50 PM']let alone something that hadn't had a chance at life.[/quote]

[quote name='Varg' post='1921823' date='Jul 16 2009, 10:57 PM']There are laws restricting how long you can leave the pregnancy before having an abortion, so it would be a foetus not a child.[/quote]

Contradiction?

Just because the child is a foetus does not mean it's potential of life should be taken away.

[rhetoricfemme]

[quote]Here's a hypothetical scenario: a woman gets raped. She becomes pregnant but decides to keep the baby, despite the fact that it was concieved through a malicious and dispicable act and she has no idea who the father is. Evertime she sees her child she is reminded of the time she was raped. The child is likely to hate itself once it finds out how it was concieved. Is this right? No, it isn't.[/quote]
No, it's not right that the mother was raped. Perhaps this hypothetical mother would consider adoption? Or maybe she would see the whole situation as a blessing in disguise, and this child is something beautiful wrought out of the malicious and despicable act?

[quote]And what of underage mothers or mothers who aren't financially apt or responsible enough to be parents? The child has a miserable life and so does the mother/parents. Women who get pregnant whilst still in education will have to sacrifice their social lives and their education. This, in my opinion, is not right.[/quote]
My sister got pregnant when she was 16. While obviously not a desired situation, her attention turned away from the partying and trouble making that was commonplace in her particular social circle. She finished her schooling. She's worked for the same company for about 16 years now and does very well. In her younger years, while she certainly wasn't "financially apt," she went on every assistance program she could get her hands on. She even found time to volunteer at a domestic violence shelter. Her son, my nephew, is 19 years old now, and has had a very loving and fulfilling life. He and his mother have all the love and respect in the world for one another. Not to mention my sister is now in her mid-30s and has a major appreciation for the time and place for sillyness and ease-of-mind to prevail.

So while it certainly wasn't easy, it doesn't always hold true that the teenager who gets pregnant will be miserable and bitter by default. And sacrifice is a character-builder, no? Through sacrifice we learn that life is not all about us, and the things we feel entitled to are actually luxuries that we've always been told are rights instead of privileges.

[quote]What "assumptions"?[/quote]
Every situation you present is an assumption. Sure, things could always take those sad routes, but it's not a guarantee. Life is what we make of it, and I think we could make a lot more of it when we realize that it's not about us. And if the pregnant woman in these dire circumstances finds herself unable or unwilling to take on the responsibilities, then there is always adoption.

We're not entitled to anything more than the the life God has given us, so what gives us the right to take away the life of another, whether or not they are yet to be born?

Edited July 16, 2009 by rhetoricfemme

[tinytherese]

[quote name='Varg' post='1921771' date='Jul 16 2009, 03:50 PM']Here's a hypothetical scenario: a woman gets raped. She becomes pregnant but decides to keep the baby, despite the fact that it was concieved through a malicious and dispicable act and she has no idea who the father is. Evertime she sees her child she is reminded of the time she was raped. The child is likely to hate itself once it finds out how it was concieved. Is this right? No, it isn't.



Discuss[/quote]

It is indeed a great sorrow when a woman is raped, but the baby should not be the one punished because of what his or her father did to their mother. Amazingly, it's been found that when women go into counseling after getting raped and having an abortion after getting pregnant from it that they go into therapy not for the rape but for the abortion.

Even if a child's life is difficult it is better for them to live than die. I believe in the other "a" word-- adoption.


There's this one very beautiful pro-life song that I know of. [url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DCmLmZDpB4I"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DCmLmZDpB4I[/url]

My avatar and signiture sure do apply to this topic.

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='Varg' post='1921839' date='Jul 16 2009, 06:17 PM']What's the Catholic view on euthanasia? I'm just curious[/quote]
We aren't into murder at either end of life.

[dairygirl4u2c]

rape im sympathetic to.

the justification i find for abortion generally, 'it's my body', doesn't work generally but maybe to rape. see, if they chose to have sex, they assumed the risk of getting pregnant. If you got in an accident, and it was your fault, and someone was suddenly attached to you-- any reasonable person would say you wait the few months it takes to get you off.
i remember it said before that if you woke up one day and found someone attached to your body, you'd be entitled to remove them- this might work with rape, but doesn't work generally.

the lack of personhood thing is another matter, though. there's certain deferences of judgment that could be argued either way, but this applies accross the board, not just rape. though i guess more dference could be argued with rape. (given the uncertainty, how should deferences be gratned, to what decision makers, arguments)(if "it's my body' implies these deferendce arguments, i'm more sympathetic to the arguments. but most don't imply that. actually, most don't know what they think when they say that- most who would say that, are ignorant, to put it bluntly, as a matter of common experience on my part.

Edited July 17, 2009 by dairygirl4u2c

[rhetoricfemme]

[url="http://www.ehd.org/movies.php?mov_id=29&cell=4"]The Endowment for Human Development[/url] website has a short video clip for each stage of pregnancy. I think it speaks volumes, considering how even in the early stages of six weeks, you can't deny the baby's human-like qualities. Too many people try to disconnect themselves from that fact.

If nothing else, it's fun to watch.